Self Hating Haoles?

[turtlegirl]

I think I've come across a "self hating haole". On a surfing forum that I visit occasionally, I posted to a thread about Jack Johnson that he had canceled Kokua Fest this year. Here's where things took a turn for the wierd. I'm going to copy and paste the discussion that followed. If this is a no-no, the moderators can let me know, please. Anyway, this guy got all riled up at me. His screen name is "HawaiiSucksExceptSurf". Classy, huh?


HSES- kailua??!?! haole....

ME - Yeah, haole.
I guess you didn't read my introduction on the other thread?
Are you trying to make some point about haoles from Kailua that like Jack Johnson? Haoles that like festivals? Haoles that like music? Haoles in general? Whats the point of your "haole" post??

HSES - yeah pretty much. as a haole that grew up in town and went to mckinley and roosevelt H.S. a lot of people resent you guys in a way. i was beaten up or picked on almost every day growing up and im still not accepted. im proud of being from hawaii because i feel that all i wnt through being a minority that mant people look down on made me a stronger person. however, most in kailua are rich and white. i live in a ski town in CO. now (for the winter), last week i was talking with this girl working retial, and she was telling me how she wants to move to hawaii, specifically kailua, then later told me how she hates japanese visitors. well i told my japanese/filipino friend back home and we had a laugh about how "typical". (all my friends are asian because im from a neighborhood thats only like 5% caucasian).

nothing personal at all its just a stereotype a lot of people from hawaii hold.

ME - HawaiiSucks, save your racist stereotype cr@p. You are an idiot, thats why you got beat up in school. Don't project your bigotry on me. Find yourself a good psychiatrist, you're obviously screwed up. Nothing personal.
My friends are all different races and none of us are rich. I'm glad for you that you got to call your asian friends and laugh together about that ignorant retail girl. Hey, I bet they laugh together behind your back about that stupid haole boy off skiing for the winter.
PS - The only rich haoles I've met do things like spend winters in ski towns in colorado.

HSES - what the hell is your problem? you didnt grow up in hawaii, so you wouldnt know, would you? oh and im so rich to have bought a 250 dollar plane ticket to denver and a 20 dollar bus ticket to frisco, then get paid 9 dollars an hour as a lift op. and pay 300 dollars rent for a bed in a dorm. I work 6 days a week, 11 hours a day so dont pretend you know me. its fact that oahu whites are concentrated in military areas, and rich neighborhoods, and tht kailua is one of the most expensive neighborhoods on the island. im sure there are plenty of asians you know, wooptydoo. dont act like you know hawaii just because youve lived there a few months. do yourself a favor, go to mckinley HS. after school hours one day, or go to my neighborhood, on liliha street near north judd, and watch the kids for a while. if you cant see the difference between growing up in an area like tht and an area like kailua, then you are the idiot. everything you just said just shows how little you know about hwaii. reverse discrimination in hawaii is well known even among these english blokes. i dont feel sorry for myself, but i know that i know hawaii better than some girl from florida who lives in kailua one of the most expensive neighborhoods with the most mainland implants in hawaii.

if you want to dispute the facts, check out city-data.com

kailua (96734) avarage adgusted gross income = 60,000
white poulation = 24,000
asian = 10,000

lower nuuanu (96817) AGI = 39,000
white = 5,000
asian = 35,000


End of discussion. Sorry it was so long, but this exchange definately has me going I don't get it. I guess people are entitled to their opinions, and I probably could have been nicer in my posting, but I'm pretty annoyed by this retarded exchange of posts on an otherwise peaceful discussion about music.

I don't get it!!? I was at North Shore yesterday and saw tons of mansions. Same goes for Hawaii Kai, Ewa, Kapolei, Wailua, Kaneohe, Kaaawa, etc, etc. Does Kailua have some monopoly on rich white people, or a bad reputation, or is this guy just a nut job?

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Self Hating Haoles?

HSES is not a nut job at all. He sounds like a local haole guy who grew up here and got picked on by stupid local kids. And as far as his comments on Kailua vs lower Nuuanu, well, I'm with him. It's a broad generalization but it's got a lot of truth in it too.

Turtlegirl, what exactly makes you think that you come across as a "self hating haole"? As far as I can tell, to date, you have sounded upbeat and enthusiastic, albeit a little naive. Where's the self hating part?

[turtlegirl]

Re: Self Hating Haoles?

No, no, not me, this guy "HawaiiSucks" seems to be the self hater. From his comments like "As a haole that grew up in town...a lot of people resent you guys.." and because he's haole attacking haoles for being haole. Its wierd, isn't it? I don't think he was trying to offer me any compliments by accusing me of being a rich haole.

[MyopicJoe]

Re: Self Hating Haoles?

One survival technique, for bully victims, is to help their attackers find someone else to pick on. They also might identify with their attackers, because it feels better to pretend you are the bully than the victim. Or maybe he's too afraid to confront locals, so he takes his frustration on safer targets.

Well, that's my arm chair psychology for you. FWIW.

I understand your frustrations with him. In the end, you should pity him. Growing up in an environment where you're despised and ridiculed can damage you for life. Learn what you can from his comments, because he's probably got some valid observations, but take it all with a grain of salt.

Most importantly don't get sucked into his poisonous vibe.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Self Hating Haoles?

I don't think "HawaiiSucks" hates himself as much as he hates the environment he grew up in. I can't say as I blame him. As a haole that grew up in Kailua, I can empathize with what he must have gone though. Unless you're good at making friends, you would get picked on a lot. Adults are (usually) much better about it, but kids can get ugly.

No matter where you go, you'll find people that experience the same place much differently. I believe his experience was real and probably not that uncommon for his situation. Your experience can be completely different. A great deal depends on who your neighbors are. Worry about your own experience.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Self Hating Haoles?

Most importantly don't get sucked into his poisonous vibe.

Them's the most important words, tgirl. You may never understand where HSES is coming from, as you didn't live the life he did, but you don't have to understand in order to gain something from his p.o.v. Even if it is a lesson on how you don't want to behave.

[Seeking Penance]

Re: Self Hating Haoles?

No matter where you go, you'll find people that experience the same place much differently. I believe his experience was real and probably not that uncommon for his situation. Your experience can be completely different. A great deal depends on who your neighbors are. Worry about your own experience.

completely agree.....i can just about imagine the awful experience he went through....

take for example turtlegirl...my experience

it was rough in our neighborhood...(brooklyn, new york - brownsville to be exact) you were either the bully or the victim or in between - as the only local family from the south pacific. and you are identified by your ethnicity; we learned quick to adjust (well for most of our family members) we were sorrounded by drug dealers, prostitutes etc; most were kind and genuine some are just vile and venomous - you name it; but you learned to adjust and deal with the what nots....it is the environment you grew up in....for most - the experience alone can prepare for what is ahead and for most they dwell on it

mahalo

[D'Alani]

Re: Self Hating Haoles?

I was born and raised in Kalihi and still reside in Kalihi. I attended a private school from grade 9 through grade 11, there was a mixture of haoles whose parents were in the military, haoles whose parents were recent arrivals and the "local haoles" who were born here or third fourth or fifth generation. They hardly ever socialized with one another, so there were three groups of haoles. I guess the local haoles feel "superior" to the other haoles. This is much like the local Japanese who for generations felt there were better than the "katonks", mainland born Japanese and the "Bobura's", Japan born Japaneses. So I don't think this guy is self hating he probably just feels that he knows Hawaii better than you do. So as another poster suggested, don't get sucked into his kukae.

[leashlaws]

Re: Self Hating Haoles?

If you ever meet me you will see the scars on my legs from stabbings with pencils, "holes" scars from having
coke bottles thrown my way and as they shattered the
glass imbedded in my legs. Ice balls in winter that almost blew my head open. This ugly stuff happens everywhere. In my case I was the only minority in our
small town of 5,000 then, everyone, I mean EVERYONE was white. Then a Jewish family was ALLOWED to move in across the street but even those kids never had the crap beaten out of them like I did. History books did not help my situation at all and the teachers were just as awful to me and it was not intolerable is it is now, just the way it was. But what doesn't kill you makes you stronger and that's the way it is/was. Life goes on and get over it!

[Mahi Waina]

Re: Self Hating Haoles?

Could be that HSES hates the rich haoles that act in such a way as to bring down enmity on all haoles. When I think back to when I lived on the Big Island, I resent the way I was treated by some locals, but absolutely detest the way I was treated by my haole and Japanese bosses.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: Self Hating Haoles?

I should also add that my experience (and probably HSES's) is what it was like growing up back then. Today might be different.

Oh, and TG, if you've never run into the term before, do a search on this board for "kill haole day".

Edit: Try this thread.

[lavagal]

Re: Self Hating Haoles?

Gosh, what a fascinating thread. I'm amazed at your experiences. I feel very fortunate for having bought this house my husband grew up in, from his parents 10 years ago for less than $300K in Hawaii Kai! We are not rich! We are fortunate. I anticipate that my two girls, completely haole, might suffer some discrimination for their race. I hope that because they get Hawaiian culture via a neighborhood kumu at school, because they and their friends don't seem to emphasize racial differences, that we'll see children grow and mature without the pain previous generations have suffered. I think it is possible for racism to be overcome, especially in Hawaii, especially because we have elected our first bi-racial president, and because he is from Hawaii. I would like that.

[timkona]

Re: Self Hating Haoles?

Gawd, I hate racism. In all it's forms.

[SusieMisajon]

Re: Self Hating Haoles?

Sounds like the guy has more problems with money that with race. Sounds like he wanted to be a RICH Haole, and was pissed off that he wasn't.

[Expat Kamaaina]

Re: Self Hating Haoles?

All these postings to this thread just goes to show you that different people read, see, interpret, and think differently. From my perspective, I did not read or interpret about 70% of what everyone was referring to in their posts. Sure, the original poster and the HawaiiSucks guy had some strong words in their postings, but I couldn't see any terrible attitudes in what they said. The HawaiiSucks guy was just speaking his mind and if anyone faults him for that, whether you agree with him or not, is being pretty narrow-minded or thin skin. In fact, I think I basically agree with what he said.

Today, some of what he said about the haoles and the asians may have changed a bit, since the attitudes and the demographics of the islands are changing, but 40 or so years ago, what he said was spot-on.