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  • #76
    Re: Mac vs PC

    Originally posted by tutusue View Post
    Hip by default, huh?! I work with some of the hippest people one could ever meet. And there the comparison ends!!! Still, they include me in many of their get togethers! They're younger than my kids by a decade fer crissakes! I'm always flattered!

    As you know, Tiki, the majority of "us" are Maccies and we're in a very creative industry. So the Macs=creative line that was drawn earlier in this thread is pretty darn accurate.
    Hip by default....maybe, but you're getting invited to parties, so , hip, by hipster standards too...Sorry Sue, you're hip.

    There is a roped off table with your name on a reserve card waiting for you.

    You PC guys have fun with your PC's. I'll have fun with my Mac....either way, we get done what we have to get done, and that's all that matters...

    Craig, you sound like you're got a micropchip on your shoulder.

    Lighten up guy, it's just age old advertising...

    Remember too, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are friends from way back.
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    • #77
      Re: Mac vs PC

      It may be age old advertising, but for Apple it isn't what they were in their humble beginnings and with this bold advertising they've launched, they have become part of the monster they were championing against.

      That's what I'm saying. In the past Apple has made itself a name by making reliable (albeit expensive) computers. Hackers stayed away because Apple never attacked anyone or became the monolith MS had. Now with sales soaring and ad campaigns mocking their competition, they have become as targetable as MS has in the past.

      This isn't a chip on a shoulder by any means. This is fair warning that what is happening to MS will happen to Apple with an attitude like that.

      If you ask me I think it's more the Apple crowd that has the chip on the shoulder mocking PC's for their unstable OS platforms.

      This is humble talk man. People think they're safe behind their Macs, and for now they are, but keep up the trash talk and soon Apple will be licking it's embarrassed wounds after what I will dub as the first major Virus to attack an Apple OS as: The BIG MAC Attack. Nothing is sacred, not even Apple.

      One thing I do agree on regarding the strengths of Apple computers is their carving out a niche in the music and video production industry. Ever since the first Macintosh came out following the Apple II series, Apple was able to garner a greater percentage in that field amazingly not against MS but a very popular computer called the Commodore 64 that held ground well into the mid 90's.

      But as I've said before, even Apple stole their GUI from Xerox way back before the rise of MS' GUI. So what goes around, comes around. Yeah so what if Vista looks like a 6-year old Mac desktop. Apple has been saying that ever since Windows 3.1 came out. And Xerox had been saying that (and sued Apple) when Apple came out with the Macintosh. It's no big wahoo to anyone who's been in the computer biz since the 60's.
      Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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      • #78
        Re: Mac vs PC

        One thing that frustrates me about both PCs and Macs is when they introduce a new OS. I hate it! It means more money out of my wallet.

        I own an old iMac (OS 9.1) and a PC (XP Professional—it’s a Dell, by the way, going on 4 years). I need (want) to upgrade, but I can’t afford to upgrade both.

        Windows has gone to Vista and the Mac upgrade (Leopard) is on hold till October (from what I hear). I really haven’t been keeping up on the upgrade front, so I went to CompUSA to test drive Vista. I wasn’t too impressed with the interface (it’s kinda Mac-like, OS 10 at least), but when I did an application test and test drove MS Word 2007, which was designed for Vista, it floored me. It’s totally changed, and not necessarily for the better! If this is your first word processing program (and your word processing requirements are simple), this might be OK. But if you are into heavy formatting, and accessing and retaining the formatting of older versions of Word (95, 98, etc.), then you might be in trouble. Has anyone here tried Vista and/or Office 2007?

        For me, I’m heavily leaning towards a MacBook or MacBook Pro, but Apple has delayed the next OS till October. So, for all of you Mac addicts out there, will I be missing anything if I buy a Mac in the summer? I need to upgrade my software, too ... but that’s another story ... or is it?

        btw: I used to work in advertising, but I’m not commenting on that battle front... at least not at the moment.

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        • #79
          Re: Mac vs PC

          I dunno if I'd actually try to "upgrade" any PC from an older version of Windows to Vista. I've heard too many horror stories of things going wrong. Better to bite the bullet and start from scratch (reformat and load). I'm not going to upgrade my PC to Vista. I'll just trash it when support for XP ends and start with a new PC. (or get a new PC when this one dies, whichever comes first) The only reason I'm on XP now is because my '98 PC crashed about 2 years ago.

          Miulang
          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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          • #80
            Re: Mac vs PC

            From my mini-research, I came to the same conclusion. I'll wait till my XP dies before I upgrade. My sister bought a new computer, HP with Vista (mainly because her old computer died), but her copy of PhotoShop, which I gave her, cannot install. It's incompatible. I don't know how many other of her software/hardware are incompatible, but I've read and heard a lot of horror stories.

            But the same could be said about Mac updates. When I bought my iMac (OS 9.1) there was a big issue about QuarkXpress and incompatibility with OS 10.xxx. and how printers (commercial printers, not personal printers) would respond.

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            • #81
              Re: Mac vs PC

              Unless you have some app you so badly need and it only runs on the latest OS, the wise thing to do is to stick with the old OS till support dies. It will be the most reliable OS. This is why you will still find companies using Windows 2000.

              It's like buying a car. If a car model introduces an all new design, yes, you got the wow, cool factor. But you are also buying the most problem prone year model for that generation because the bugs haven't been worked out. If you buy the last of the model year for a specific generation, it will be the best, bug free version. This was many years ago but I bought the last of one generation of Civic and I had a roommate who bought the first year of the next generation. He had a whole lot more problems than I ever had, which was zero for me.

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              • #82
                Re: Mac vs PC

                Originally posted by buzz1941 View Post
                But it's a good thing that PCs are so easy to repair -- because you'll be doing it more often!
                You keep spouting that line, but it's no more valid than the first time you said it. Hardware is hardware, the higher the quality the better the performance and lifespan. Yes, Macs are made with decent hardware, but that doesn't mean that all other PC manufactures sell crap. Making the generalization that all other non-mac PCs break often because non-mac users have the choice to buy cheapy computers is ignorant. Of course a 200$ e-machine shouldn't be expected to last forever, It can but for that price it shouldn't be expected. Again, it's all about choice, with non-mac PCs you have a choice, with macs there is no choice.


                That's what I'm saying. In the past Apple has made itself a name by making reliable (albeit expensive) computers. Hackers stayed away because Apple never attacked anyone or became the monolith MS had. Now with sales soaring and ad campaigns mocking their competition, they have become as targetable as MS has in the past.
                Craig, while this has been argued before, and is certainly a possibility, it is a lot harder to compromise a properly secured *nix system. There have been several competitions to break into a properly secured osx machine and there has been little success. Not to say there hasn't been any successes at all. There have been a plethora of 0day exploits, but Apple does a good job at keeping them patched. While market share undoubtedly plays a small part in OSx's lack of viruses and other nuances, it is more reasonable to say that it takes more sophisticated hackers and viruses writers to compromise a *nix system, where as windows systems(at least from xp down, I haven't been following vista at all)have and can be cracked by any little scriptkiddie with a bit of VB knowledge.

                Sorry Craig, I'm not a big fan of apple but the arguments weak.

                Want some Irony to go with this argument! Macs most well known un-patched security flaw is MS offices macro feature
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                • #83
                  Re: Mac vs PC

                  Originally posted by Cameron View Post
                  Sorry Craig, I'm not a big fan of apple but the arguments weak.

                  Want some Irony to go with this argument! Macs most well known un-patched security flaw is MS offices macro feature

                  No need to apologize But the more sophisticated the OS the more flaws can be found. Simplicity rates in my book.

                  I used to design circuits that maintained accuracy. The more accuracy needed the more sophisticated the circuit became until it became agonizingy harder to troubleshoot.

                  My friend who programs Macs is one of complexity. When we were kids we were locking our bikes to a light pole in front of Kahala Mall. He wrapped his chain thru every part of his bike until it looked like a serpant choking it's prey.

                  When he locked the padlock I looked at him and said, "Great job but you forget to lock it to the pole".

                  Mac's are like that, the complexity of it's operating system is hidden from the user thru a simple GUI. This user simplicity limits what you can do with it if you chose to be creative and must rely on licensed programs.

                  But behind that OS is a complex network of address lines and that's where the complexity will spell it's demise. Too many ways in. And my friend did tell me as a programmer that once the back door is left open on a Mac OS, all hell will break loose. There is a door, all programmers make one for their benefit.

                  One day a hacker will find one unlocked...it's just a matter of time.
                  Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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                  • #84
                    Re: Mac vs PC

                    I don't understand the arguments at all. System upgrades in OSX are what set the system apart and easy to do. Simply copy your apps and user folder over to a portable hd, install the system, and copy your apps and user folder back, and you're done. On my Titanium PB, I upgraded to 10.4.9 with a complete clean install in under 1hr, with no glitches and no conflicts whatsoever. No need to reinstall wireless networks, bookmarks, preferences, anything.

                    Also, being compatible with unix is not stealing, it's called being cross-compatible and adaptable, and it's highly intelligent. The unix underpinning is what makes it possible to avoid Cameron's first point anyway - you can get in via terminal to any of the underlying architecture and tweak away to your heart's content. If you think it's unconfigurable, you clearly do not understand mac hardware.

                    I have owned many Macs. I learned them as I got them. I didn't know unix, but once I got OSX, I did a few tutorials. I have sat in only one class in these last 15+ years of owning/using macs, and by rtfn, along with acquainting myself with help features and menu pull-downs, the computer has consistently been easy for the self-taught user. My average mac lasts a good five years, at least. Up until OSX, I might have wiped out/rebooted the OS a few times, but my last computer, (Titanium 2001) I did so only one time, and it is still running. My new macbooks work flawlessly.

                    pax

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                    • #85
                      Re: Mac vs PC

                      A few more points on the Mac.

                      1. The MS Word macro virus has been around for at least 10 years if not longer. I think it started effecting Word from version 5.0 back in the System 7.0 days. That was like 1991 or so. The simple thing to do was/is to disable macros. Works for me as I have never used macros. I don't use Word that much.

                      My favorite Mac word processor has and will always be Write Now 4.0. It is simple to use but sadly abandoned by its owners about 10 years ago. It still works on my old Powerbook 3400, a Mac Plus and my Mac Plus emulator that runs on a memory stick and compact flash card (one for OSX and the other for Windows XP).

                      2. Macs are not totally immune to viruses. There have been viruses for the Mac since the earliest of days. Anti viral programs and utilities have been published to take care of them. The last major viral outbreak for the Mac was around 1998 when something called the Hong Kong virus (I think that was the name) infected some Macs.

                      3. Currently for OSX which sits on top of BSD Unix as noted in previous posts, there are no known viruses. However the possibility does exist that the OSX layer could be infected if someone took the time to fool around and make something that messes up Aqua. But as Cameron states, it is harder to do something nasty with Unix.

                      4. Recently some kind of vulnerability was announced for Apple's Quicktime movie player. This announcement is one of several that gets announced from time to time. Apple has been pretty good in sending out updates and patches to fix OSX from possible security threats... just like I assume Microsoft does with Windows (I go home from work and come back the next day and the PC says please restart to finish upgrade).... We get similar stuff with OSX.

                      5. I would tend to agree with Craig that if a serious virus or other type of malware finally makes it in the Mac world, many users will be seriously effected. Just like Windows users.... it just hasn't happened to Mac users in a big way for a long time. I think reactions and fixes will be predictable when that day comes.

                      6. I think it you use older versions of the Mac OS (like OS 9.2 or earlier), the chances of being hit by malware is slim since the user base for those earlier OS's are in decline. The only malware to worry about are the ones that everyone knows of (about 70 of them I think).

                      While I use PCs at work, for home and all other uses I am Mac all the way. I even have my Mac laptop with me when I am work because there are times I need to do stuff like photos, and it is way better to use Photoshop in my Mac vs. having nothing like that on the work PC. At least I can save the photoshop file in a format that the PC with Windows understands and import it to whatever document I am working on in Windows.
                      I'm still here. Are you?

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                      • #86
                        Re: Mac vs PC

                        Originally posted by mel View Post
                        4. Recently some kind of vulnerability was announced for Apple's Quicktime movie player.
                        There was also another one not too long ago where hackers exploited a bug in safari.
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                        • #87
                          Re: Mac vs PC

                          So, have we scared Nikki enough on her original question that started this thread? Mac users are arrogant and ignorant of what's under the hood, and their comeuppance is imminent, whilst PC users can happily McGyver their machines to operate again when they're so often struck down by infection or malfunction.

                          I quite well remember a techhead at the Hawaii Newspaper Agency imperiously telling me that Macs will never succeed. I should, he said, invest in a CP/M computer made by Zorba!

                          Nikki, get a Zorba:

                          http://www.computermuseum.li/Testpag...nZorba1983.htm
                          Last edited by buzz1941; April 29, 2007, 11:19 PM.
                          Burl Burlingame
                          "Art is never finished, only abandoned." -- Leonardo Da Vinci
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                          • #88
                            Re: Mac vs PC

                            Oops, oh well I guess it did get a bit hot here. Okay truce. PC's have their issues and Macs...are okay.
                            Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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                            • #89
                              Re: Mac vs PC

                              I've used 'em both - I like 'em both.

                              I wouldn't say PCs are "better" for a lot of the tasks I use them for; I'm just more used to them, as that's what's been provided in my work environments.

                              But when I've done audio editing and album production, I preferrred Macs all the way.

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                              • #90
                                Re: Mac vs PC

                                If you disagree with anything you find on this page, you are wrong.
                                http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse....gi?u=macs_cant

                                @ maddox
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