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  #76  
Old September 9th, 2011, 01:32 PM
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Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

A UH geophysics prof postulated that the rebar used to construct that stretch of highway had been hit by lightning and magnetized.
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  #77  
Old September 10th, 2011, 09:51 PM
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Exclamation Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

Quote:
Originally Posted by lensperson View Post
The antenna in the tunnel was coaxial cable that was slotted every so often to allow the broadcast to "leak out" of the antenna..The slotted aperture antenna structure is now in wide use.As far as anomalous magnetic readings go, they may well exist.
We pretty much have determined that the anomaly is in the roadbed, since when a compass was held out over the valley, it normalized.

This slotted coaxial cable theory makes a lot of sense, since the anomaly is intermittent. I'll have to see if I can determine any regularity in distance between 'pulses.' It will require slow driving and observers to watch the compass and determine distance by counting the Jersey Barriers (the odometer reading isn't fine enough).

I'd like to know where you got this information and how I can find out more. I'd be interested to know the following:
Is the cable embedded in the roadbed?
Can the emissions effect magnetics?

Another question is why is it only on the Pearl Harbor side, and not the Windward side? If the intent was to alert motorists of incidents or danger, both sides need it. And why both approaching and leaving the tunnel?
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  #78  
Old September 10th, 2011, 10:53 PM
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Lightbulb Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

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Originally Posted by GeckoGeek View Post
It's not unusual for roadways to have induction loops to sense traffic. Most commonly used to trigger traffic lights, but also used to sense traffic flow. Given that H-3 has it's own traffic office, it wouldn't surprise me to know that the highway has such sensors - which also work on AC magnetic field. If they're just the right frequency, they could well confuse a flux gate compass.
According to Wikipedia, there are induction loops every 500 feet INSIDE the tunnel, to monitor traffic flow. I don't know why they would be on the road in both directions (East and West), but OUITSIDE the tunnel and only on the leeward side.

I like lenspersons idea of slotted 'leaky' coax cables for radio warnings, but can find no references to it online. And again, why only on the leeward side, and why both East and West?
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  #79  
Old September 11th, 2011, 04:19 AM
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Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

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Can the emissions effect magnetics?
A mechanical compass? No freaking way.

Yes, the emissions are electromagnetic, but they oscillate at a minimum of 540,000 cycles per second (if not 90 millions of times per second). There's just no way that something cycling that fast affect a mechanical compass. Each cycle is roughly even in it's north/south peak. I don't see how it could give a sustained constant/low frequency magnetic field needed to throw off a mechanical compass.

I think the best theory is that it's just the rebar somehow got magnetized. Perhaps they used a crane with a big electromagnet to move it around.
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  #80  
Old September 13th, 2011, 03:29 AM
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Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

Howdy. I am digging through my archives to find the supporting data re:antennas
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  #81  
Old September 14th, 2011, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

A recap of what we know for sure (by request):

The phenomenon is limited to an area above the H-3 roadbed. Outside the crashbarriers there is no effect. This eliminates microwave antennas or antenna radio waves. Whatever it is is an electromagnetic effect eminating from either the roadbed or within the barriers. Although the effect seems blocked by the Jersey Barriers (crash barriers), it easily penetrates the steel frames and bodies of motor vehicles.

It is intermittant (turns off and on with distance from the start point), and variable in intensity for some unknown reason.

It is limited to both Westbound and Eastbound lanes of H-3, but begins about an 8th mile outside the tunnels and continues for only a few miles. It is evident ONLY on the Halawa (leeward) side of the tunnels. The Haiku elevated roadway (where the steel grid has been removed from the highway after the closing of the Haiku OMEGA station antenna) loacks the magnetic properties of the Halawa side.

Lightning? Magnetic crane?

I'm surprised there is such a lack of interest in this at various levels of government and education.

K
The magnetic phenomenon has been noted on other elevated highways on O`ahu, to an undetermined degree.

Did I miss anything?
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Last edited by Kaonohi; September 14th, 2011 at 07:32 PM.
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  #82  
Old September 15th, 2011, 01:26 AM
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Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

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Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
I'm surprised there is such a lack of interest in this at various levels of government and education.
1) It's not a problem
2) No one can figure out how to use the information in their favor. (perhaps by making it a problem they need funding to solve.)
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  #83  
Old September 15th, 2011, 01:43 AM
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Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

After considerable digging around in my numerous drives I found some decent data and a fascinating link. The contractor for a lot of the tunnel electronics was Transdyn inc. to be found at (you guessed it!) at www.transdyn.com. From the home page go to Systems:Transportation systems. The buttons are near the top of the page.One is shown a list of projects including the trans-Koolau H3 tunnel.Take a look at where it says am/fm rebroadcast abilities. I still have to locate some archived data but I am pretty sure that is where I recall the slotted antenna stuff. Still diggin for more. Regards, Chris
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  #84  
Old September 15th, 2011, 10:49 PM
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Smile Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

Quote:
Originally Posted by lensperson View Post
After considerable digging around in my numerous drives I found some decent data and a fascinating link. The contractor for a lot of the tunnel electronics was Transdyn inc. to be found at (you guessed it!) at www.transdyn.com. From the home page go to Systems:Transportation systems. The buttons are near the top of the page.One is shown a list of projects including the trans-Koolau H3 tunnel.Take a look at where it says am/fm rebroadcast abilities. I still have to locate some archived data but I am pretty sure that is where I recall the slotted antenna stuff. Still diggin for more. Regards, Chris
WOW! Thanks, Chris. If we are to solve this mystery we need more folk like you.

K
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  #85  
Old September 15th, 2011, 10:58 PM
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Lightbulb Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeckoGeek View Post
1) It's not a problem
2) No one can figure out how to use the information in their favor. (perhaps by making it a problem they need funding to solve.)
Good, logical, insightful call.
It's not driving anyone crazy (other than me, which is psychosomatic).
It's not causing crashes (though I have seen a LOT of crashes at that end of the tunnel, and even been involved in one, I can't say for sure it's the magnetics).
The State doesn't want to dig up old corpses.
The news is uninterested until we can explain it, and maybe not even then.
I guess I got over-excited by a non-event.
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  #86  
Old September 15th, 2011, 11:56 PM
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Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

Thanks to Lensperson, this is my email to peter Smith of Transdyne, via their "conact us" mode.

------------
Mr. Smith,

Some of us on O`ahu have noticed that upon exiting the trans-Ko`olau tunnels on the West side, heading West, there are several magnetic anomalies which cause in-vehicle compasses to swing wildly, reverse direction, deflect 90 degrees, spin around and so forth. This also occurs heading East, before entering the tunnels.

Through casual study (the State of Hawai`i denies us extended access), we have determined that the magnetic influence begins at a 'Jersey Barrier' marked G18, and extends for at least a mile.

The observation is that when transiting this area in either lane, East or West, magnetic deflections are evident. No negative effects are evident, it seems to be a mild magnetic deflection of heretofore unknown origin.

Speculation has arisen. UH professors claim it is the effect of lightning strikes upon exposed rebar. It is limited to the roadway; when a compass is held over the valley floor below the elevated highway, it normalizes.

Naturally, we are nosy buggers, and we want to know what is causing this anomaly. There is a good chance it is your installed Tunnel Traffic Surveillance & Control System.

It appears to be harmless, unless one is trying to determine direction while hiking ON the H-3 (unlikely).
This is largely a matter of curiosity, and education for Hawai`i residents, drivers, and schoolchildren (who WILL notice it, eventually).

My questions are:

1) Can your systems affect magnetic flux in an area where deployed?
2) Is the effect intermediate due to 'leaky areas' on the cable (often used to prevent feedback).
3) Is it limited in scope? (The concrete Jersey barriers seemed adequate to stop the divergence, although the steel-framed cars seems to have no effect.)

ANY data/information you can provide will be helpful. We have been examining this phenomenon for over a year with no solution. I feel confident you can provide the additional information we require.

Sincerely,

Ed F.G. Lesperance, M.A.
Cultural Anthropology, Polynesia

----------------------------------------
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  #87  
Old September 19th, 2011, 07:45 PM
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Default Other ointeresting information re: rapidly changing magnetic fields!

From: http://io9.com/5601177/ball-lightnin...ble-phenomenon

Please see highlighted portions below:
__________________________________________________ __________

Ball lightning: a shocking (and totally inexplicable) phenomenonIt skitters across the ground, floats in the air, is cold to the touch, and leaves scorch marks. It's been scientifically explained, or hey, it might be a total hallucination. It's ball lightning!
Ball lightning is the name given to a group of phenomena that have not been completely explained, or even agreed upon. Of the two words in its name, only the first is shared by all witnesses. According to most eyewitnesses, it glows and is shaped like a ball.
Everything else varies. Most reports say the balls are orange to beach ball size, but some say they've seen ball lightning the size of a bus. The ball can float, roll and bounce around solid objects, or do both. They're seen indoors or out. Ball lightning has reportedly been cold to the touch, left burn marks in rock, and electrocuted people. It fades away, or explodes and sputters out. Anything goes.





Since the exact properties of ball lightning are not agreed upon, a single explanation for the phenomena can't be reached. Those who believe that ball lightning is cool, consider it to be corona discharge – the same thing that is responsible for Saint Elmo's Fire, which produces light but not much heat. Those who believe it burns what it touches believe that it's a bunch of burning dust kicked up and ignited by lightning strikes. It could also be a plasma ball. Many explanations are out there.
One theory nosed its way ahead of the others in 2007, when Antonio Pavăo and Gerson Paiva of Brazil's Federal University of Pernambuco reported making small glowing balls that bounced around the room and scorched their surroundings. These balls made of silicon particles which were shocked by scientists until they produce a burning vapor. The balls only lasted a few seconds in the lab before dissipating, a shorter time than some witnesses of ball lightning say the phenomenon endures in a natural environment, but otherwise the spitting image of the glowing balls that have baffled people for centuries.
But three years after Pavăo and Paiva lit up silicon, Alexander Kendl and Joseph Peer from the University of Innsbruck in Austria put forward an alternate theory: ball lightning is just a hallucination brought on by a rapidly changing magnetic field. This is not as unbelievable as it sounds. Subjecting someone's brain to rapidly changing magnetic field can cause electrical activity, which in turn cause the neurons to cook up something good an crazy for the brain to see, hear, or think about. Psychiatrists sometimes use this technique to cause their patients to hallucinate (how forcing someone to hallucinate is therapeutic is something only your psychiatrist can explain). Seeing glowing lights is a common hallucination, so it makes sense that a lot of people would see such a thing if the very atmosphere around them is messing with their head.
There are problems with the idea. To hallucinate strongly, people would have to be closer to an area of intensely shifting magnetic fields than many observers of ball lightning have been. There have been plenty of accounts of ball lightning killing people and doing property damage. And of course there are those balls skittering around a lab.
Some statistics say that as many as one in thirty people have seen ball lightning, which means that there must be quite a few io9ers who have witnessed it. Have you seen it? How long did it last? How did it behave? Did you see any other strange things at the same time?
[Via: National Geographic twice, Universe Today, and USA Today.]

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Perhaps our magnetic anomaly is not as harmless as it may seem. I know from personal experience that otherwise inexplicable accidents occur around the Western end of the Trans-Koolau tunnels. I've seen two and been involved in one.
K

Yeah, I know, obsessive-compulsive disorder.
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  #88  
Old November 3rd, 2011, 10:53 PM
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Default MORE on magnetic diversions.

Nothing new, actually, but that theyy are still there.

I(t seems they are magnetic loop-ables (which the State won't ta;lk about) thatb do a 'copuimnting of cars' eiting the tnnel.
No reason is offerred re: only having the counters on the leeward side, or why,

T%hink it's top secret??? Neihyer do I

Who knows how to access public info?


.
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  #89  
Old November 4th, 2011, 04:05 AM
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Default Re: MORE on magnetic diversions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
I(t seems they are magnetic loop-ables (which the State won't ta;lk about) thatb do a 'copuimnting of cars' eiting the tnnel.
I'd think they'd be using the same technology as the loops by traffic lights - an AC signal that would never show up on a mechanical compass.


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Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
No reason is offerred re: only having the counters on the leeward side,
Why would they need that? Do you expect cars to disappear in the tunnel?
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  #90  
Old November 8th, 2011, 07:12 PM
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Question Re: MORE on magnetic diversions.

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Originally Posted by GeckoGeek View Post
I'd think they'd be using the same technology as the loops by traffic lights - an AC signal that would never show up on a mechanical compass.

Why would they need that? Do you expect cars to disappear in the tunnel?
Sorry for my awful typing last message!

Traffic light car detection technology is visible in the roadway - I thought it was based on the old pressure-switch technology. If there are loopsin H-3, they are based on magnetic fields, nor roadway pressure.

I don't know why they are different, nor why they are only on one side of the tunnels.
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  #91  
Old November 8th, 2011, 07:42 PM
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Question Re: MORE on magnetic diversions.

This from:
http://www.transdyn.com/system-profi...nt-system.html

Reading this through again (I never got an answer from my query to Peter Smith at Transdyne) I noticed some things (highlights mine).

"The Trans-Koolau tunnel complex on the H-3 highway provides a third connection between the Honolulu metropolitan area and the northeast side of the Island of Oahu. This state-of-the-art highway system has a sophisticated traffic surveillance and control system to manage traffic incidents and provide real-time traffic information to motorists.

From the west tunnel portal control center, operators are able to manage various subsystems such as CCTV, Dynamic Message Signs (DMS), rebroadcast AM/FM in the tunnel, emergency radio, telephone PBX, emergency roadside telephones, fire detection and ventilation. The system also enables personnel to control tunnel facility systems such as power, lighting and weather. Traffic is directly controlled and monitored using TC170 traffic controllers that are connected to embedded loop detectors, lane use signals, Changeable Message Signs (CMS) and traffic signals.

Managed by Transdyn’s DYNAC® ATMS software running on redundant servers, the system provides a unified interface for monitoring and controlling the facility, detects incidents, enables operators to increase life safety, and reduces congestion. The system also monitors traffic and tunnel conditions and can automatically change the traffic configuration (e.g. close one tunnel bore). Traffic and tunnel information is then disseminated to travelers via DMS and motorist advisory radio."

This may or may not be our culprit....
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  #92  
Old November 9th, 2011, 04:45 AM
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Default Re: MORE on magnetic diversions.

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Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
Traffic light car detection technology is visible in the roadway - I thought it was based on the old pressure-switch technology.
Frequently you can see the slots they cut to put the wire loops in place. So they're sometimes visible. I know it's a common belief that it's "pressure" or "weight" but it's not. It works more like a metal detector. The metal in the car will detune the frequency of the loop.

Sometimes you'll see a pressure-switch system. It's those rubber hoses that run across the road. (Or if you're old enough to remember service stations where your heard a "ding-ding" when you drove up.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaonohi View Post
I don't know why they are different, nor why they are only on one side of the tunnels.
If the purpose is just to count the cars to give a over-all traffic pattern they only need to be on one side. For every car that travels on the windward side there will be (or was) one car traveling on the leeward side. (Unless there's a secret off ramp the public doesn't know about.)

You need both sides only if you're trying to get real-time data on the traffic heading toward the tunnels.
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Old November 9th, 2011, 03:28 PM
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Exclamation Back to square one.

From Transdyne:

"Dear Ka`onohi,

The H3 Trans-Ko’olau tunnel used traffic detector loops at the approaches to the tunnel and within the tunnel. These loops have a very small current that should not be capable of changing the earth’ s magnetic field as you have observed, especially over the extended distances you noted.

I have attached an article describing how loops are installed and how they function.

Regards,

Tom McPharlin

Tom McPharlin | VP Technology
Transdyn, Inc. | 4256 Hacienda Dr., Suite 100 | Pleasanton, CA 94588
T: 925.225.1600 | F: 925.225.1610
tmcpharlin@transdyn.com | www.transdyn.com"

Article Attached:

Inductive Loop Write up.pdf

So, we still have a mystery.
Perhaps we can find out in advance when H-3 is going to be closed, and work alongside the work teams.
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  #94  
Old October 9th, 2017, 06:40 PM
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Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

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  #95  
Old October 9th, 2017, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

From memory:

Different than what I wrote earlier, maybe e magnetic fields re-oriented my neurons?

On O`ahu there is a significant magnetic anomaly. It occurs along the recently new H-3 Freeway, which has a mile-long tunnel through the Ko`olau mountain range. As you exit the tunnel on the Windward side (East) heading toward Kane`ohe, if you have a magnetic compass in your car it will begin to change direction wildly for about a quarter of a mile. It will turn back and forth and sometimes spin.

I have questioned the tunnel staff, the Department of Transportation, the City and County as well as the State Department of Land and Natural Resources, and they have all denied its existence.
I contacted the local Newspaper, the Honolulu Star-Advertiser and went on-site with a reporter. We confirmed the anomaly within vehicles, and on foot. The staff writer wrote an article on the anomaly, but it was never published.

The valley that the road travels through is Haiku Valley, famous for the former coast guard metal stairway of 3922 steps that goes from the valley floor to the top of the Ko`olau range, aptly named by some the “Stairway to Heaven.” The stairs were built to service a tower of a LORAN station antenna (LORAN, short for long-range navigation, was a hyperbolic radio navigation system developed in the United States during World War II.) but has become popular with hikers because it offers a superb view of the Windward side. https://www.haikustairs.org

The LORAN station created strong electromagnetic fields in the valley, which would light up fluorescent tubes in your hand. During H-3 construction it was planned to create a Faraday cage around the part of the highway that passed under the antenna wires suspended across the valley, but before the highway was commissioned, the LORAN station was decommissioned and the antenna wires were removed.

There has been a bit of local speculation as to what causes the anomaly, including electromagnetic surveillance loops under the roadway (to monitor cars), lightning strikes on the rebar during construction, and the magnetization of rebar laid down while the LORAN was still in operation.

There are also those that claim the highway is haunted because construction buried or destroyed several ancient Hawaiian Heiau (religious sites). Archeologist Earl ’Buddy’ Neller worked hard to catalog the sites before destruction and to preserve what sites he could.

Whatever the reason, whatever the cover-up, the magnetic anomaly exists, and if you ever pass that way bring a compass to see it for yourself.
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  #96  
Old October 9th, 2017, 07:39 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

More info:

I thought the Faraday Cage/shield idea was abandoned when the Omega station LORAN was decommissioned. Perhaps it's still active?

"The 52-mile-long interstate system was planned to solve Oahu's projected traffic demands and connect the island's major military centers. This network consists of three freeways: H-1, H-2 and H-3. The 15-mile-long H-3 connects the Kaneohe Marine Corps Air Station to the Pearl Harbor defense bases, passing through the Koolau Mountains to join the windward towns of Kailua and Kaneohe to the leeward cities of Pearl City and Honolulu. OMSTA causes large insulated objects near the station to become energized, providing a small shock to anyone coming in contact with these items. HDOT was concerned that "surprise shocks" to workers on H-3 might result in a fall or other accident. In some cases, workers in sensitive areas were required to wear gloves or rubber boots. To prevent any effect on H-3 travelers, a device known as a Faraday Shield was installed over a short section of the highway near the mouth of the tunnels to reduce the electric field. The shield consists of six three-eighth-inch-diameter wires on each side of the road spaced one vertical meter apart and eight three-eighth-inch-diameter wires overhead. A wire mesh is incorporated into the pavement below to complete the shield."

Copied from https://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...lity/haiku.htm
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  #97  
Old October 10th, 2017, 01:48 AM
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Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

Correction: The station was not a Loran station. Loran stations worked in pairs, a master and a slave. They were for navigation and needed to be 300 miles apart. a google search https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&q=LORAN+hawaii&oq=LORAN+hawaii&gs _l=psy-ab.3..33i160k1.4098.10452.0.12322.10.9.0.0.0.0.276 .1551.0j1j6.8.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..2.7.1544.0..0j0i10k1j0i13k1j0i22i30k1.178.YRUi Ga_AXFk shows the two stations in Hawaii were on the big island and Niihu. Two pairs of stations were required to reduce the number of possible locations to two. In the 1960s while on the bridge of a destroyer in the Atlantic I watched the Quartermaster check his dead reckoning position with the Loran position. The Loran worked in the 7.5 MHz range or VHF (Very high frequency).
The station in Haiku Valley was for communicating with submarines. And IIRC operated in the ELF or SLF range (Extremely low frequency or Super low frequency) The low frequency penetrated the water. They could only send dots and dashes at that frequency.
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  #98  
Old October 11th, 2017, 11:17 PM
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Kaonohi Kaonohi is offline
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Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

OK, thanks for the intel.
I've heard it called a LORAN, also an OMEGA. I kneel (one knee) to your expertise.
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  #99  
Old November 21st, 2017, 06:24 AM
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Default Re: Magnetic Anomaly - H-3

Kaonohi, maybe it is time to turn on the dash cam and also a GoPro, and upload a video to Youtube!
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