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  #126  
Old February 4th, 2008, 09:20 PM
Miulang Miulang is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

More vexing than any rumors is the fact that HSF appears to be suffering from some structural defects in its rudder system, and had it not been for KITV asking about it, HSF probably would have attributed its being tied up at the dock completely to bad weather. It's either a structural defect that they need to fix quickly if Austal USA is going to win that JHSV contract from the DoD in 6 months, or the damage was sustained by colliding with a whale. Either way, it's serious, and neither the HA nor the SB has bothered to investigate it. We're talking about the safety of passengers and crew.
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  #127  
Old February 5th, 2008, 01:25 AM
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Angry Re: The whiner tries -- and fails -- again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
More vexing than any rumors is the fact that HSF appears to be suffering from some structural defects in its rudder system,
Clearly you have absolutely zero familiarity with boats and ships. These kind of things happen all the time. The marine environment is extremely harsh, and repairs are a daily part of life. No big thing. It's not like the ship was going to flip over and break in two. There was a hairline crack in a rudder housing. [/yawn]
Try learning the difference between a rudder and a rudder housing.

Quote:
and had it not been for KITV asking about it, HSF probably would have attributed its being tied up at the dock completely to bad weather.
Nonsense. Sheer and utter nonsense. As usual.
And what makes you think KITV was the first?

Quote:
It's either a structural defect that they need to fix quickly if Austal USA is going to win that JHSV contract from the DoD in 6 months, or the damage was sustained by colliding with a whale.
It's not a "structural defect," it was routine wear and tear. And it's already been fixed. Guess you 'missed' those little items.
As for your guess that it hit a whale, please explain why not even any of the environmental and whale protection groups have made that claim. You're the first. As usual.

Quote:
Either way, it's serious, and neither the HA nor the SB has bothered to investigate it. We're talking about the safety of passengers and crew.
No, it is not serious. And both papers had daily coverage of the repair. There's nothing to "investigate." Hey, I saw a bus with a flat tire yesterday... where's the investigation?
And please clarify how that minor rudder problem could possibly affect the safety of passengers and crew. Sheer and utter bullsh*t!!!!!!! Your typical scare tactics.
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  #128  
Old February 5th, 2008, 02:37 AM
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Thumbs up Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

If it works out for my wife and I, we'll head over to Maui for a few days this summer! I'll try the SuperFerry then, since it didn't go for me and a buddy last December.

I hope so!

Oh yeah, and Likanui's right about wear and tear on boats.
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  #129  
Old February 5th, 2008, 12:37 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Menehune Man View Post
Likanui's right about wear and tear on boats.
Thanks, and I apologize to almost everyone for going ballistic last night, even though it was well deserved.
Also, in my haste last night I forgot to add the critically important fact that the SuperFerry is steered by movable waterjets, and the rudders are just a secondary steering system for use at very low speeds in conjunction with the waterjets. Add the SuperFerry's bow and stern thrusters to the steering equation and it's outrageously clear that Miulang's post was just more "Chicken Little/sky is falling" nonsense.
For decades, I've steered ships using only the trim tabs and thrusters, without ever touching the rudders.
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  #130  
Old February 5th, 2008, 03:04 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

For anybody who cares and is technically inclined, check out the technical details on the "rudder" problems of HSF. Also, check out the video (not a computer generated fake) of HSF on one of its voyages (talk about "Hawaiian Roller Coaster Ride"!) that was shot by George Peabody, and which was also aired by KGMB.
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  #131  
Old February 5th, 2008, 03:44 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
Thanks, and I apologize to almost everyone for going ballistic last night, even though it was well deserved.
Also, in my haste last night I forgot to add the critically important fact that the SuperFerry is steered by movable waterjets, and the rudders are just a secondary steering system for use at very low speeds in conjunction with the waterjets. Add the SuperFerry's bow and stern thrusters to the steering equation and it's outrageously clear that Miulang's post was just more "Chicken Little/sky is falling" nonsense.
For decades, I've steered ships using only the trim tabs and thrusters, without ever touching the rudders.

Lika, you should try the rudders, it works.

Oops sorry Miulang you had to see that one.
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  #132  
Old February 5th, 2008, 05:56 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigwatanabe View Post
Lika, you should try the rudders, it works.
It does? So that's what that wheel thing is for!
I could tell you some funny stories, but they'll have to wait for another time or another thread. I'm about to respond to the post just before yours and rip it limb from limb.
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  #133  
Old February 5th, 2008, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
It does? So that's what that wheel thing is for!
I could tell you some funny stories, but they'll have to wait for another time or another thread. I'm about to respond to the post just before yours and rip it limb from limb.
I swear (F*CK) there I said it...but anyway the way the two of you go at each other, you two should be married
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  #134  
Old February 5th, 2008, 07:29 PM
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Angry Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
For anybody who cares and is technically inclined, check out the technical details on the "rudder" problems of HSF.
Oh boy! Shredding this one is gonna be FUN. And so easy, too!
Let's start with the fact that Miulang "conveniently forgot" to mention that the link she gave was to a site created and run by one of the Kauai protesters... and that he (Juan Wilson) clearly states he knows almost nothing about boats and ships! (As I'll quote here shortly.) As someone who does care and is technically inclined, I find that link to be laughable at best, pitiful at worst, and useless in general.
Let's look at some quotes from Miulang's link.
The link starts with a photograph of some rudders... and a caption that says "image above: not the Superferry stern. Rudder post sleeve alignment on another ship." Well, yeah. And so a photo of a totally different ship is helpful... how? Sheesh.
When I stopped laughing, I unfathomably (pun intended) kept reading.
The item begins with "I just got a phone call from Tim Rysdale, of Wailua. He was one of those arrested back in August in the aftermath of the Superferry's attempt to land on Kauai." Okay. Clearly ol' Tim is not an impartial source of information.
"As I understood Tim's description, these rudders are hydraulically rotated through sleeved posts that enter the ship through the aluminum hull. Stress on the posts created cracks that allowed some water to enter the ferry's hull." Clearly Tim and Juan and Miulang don't know anything at all about boats and they don't understand what packing glands and stuffing boxes are. To keep it simple, let's just remember that rudder posts (and engine shafts) go through holes in the bottom of ships. These holes are (gasp) UNDERWATER. Therefore all boats have packing glands and stuffing boxes to keep out most of the water. MOST of the water. They are designed to drip. That's why God (or was it Noah?) made bilge pumps and the float switches that activate them automatically and pump those drips back overboard, through fittings called "through-hulls" that are above the waterline. This is what keeps shafts and rudder posts lubricated. That's the simplified version of a highly complex issue.
Anyway. More from Juan:
"With my limited knowledge of ship design, and structural metals, I would maintain that this represents an engineering flaw that has resulted in at least a minor structural failing of the hull." See? There's that quote I mentioned before, where Juan admits he doesn't know anything about his topic. Brilliant. Sheesh. Yet he has the bawls to call it an "engineering flaw"? Get outta here! And he calls it a "structural failing of the hull"? It has zero to do with a hull failure!
Next is another photograph. The caption says "image above: Close up of rudder post entering hull of ship. Again, not the Superfrerry." Well, then what the hell is the point? I will say, though, that I give Juan credit for being honest about saying that all these photos have nothing to do with the SuperFerry. But oops, he loses those honesty points (and more) for including the irrelevant photos in the first place.
Juan then provides 14 seconds of video footage "of the Superferry Alakai leaving Kahului Harbor on its last run to Ohau a week ago, before the "rudder" damage was detected." Uh, yeah. That video was taken at the height of the giant waves that closed Kahului Harbor, and it was taken at the single roughest part of the harbor entrance. A useless waste of 14 seconds. It proves nothing. Further, there is no way of knowing whether that is what caused the hairline cracks in the rudder housing or not; they could well have been there for weeks or even months.
(And by the way, Juan, it's "O`ahu" and not "Ohau.")
Next up is another photo, and once again it's a different ship. And a different type of ship, at that.
"Speculation: The surface cracks that were reported might be on the stern transom (the flat termination to the stern, above the water line) that the interceptors are mounted to. If this were the case it indeed would be a disastrous structural failure of the Superferry's aluminum hull design." Ah yes. Speculation. No wonder Miulang liked the link. And by the way, "stern transom" is from the Department Of Redundancy Department. There is no thing as a bow transom, nor any such thing as a side transom. It's always, you know, at the stern. Just another sign that these folks know nothing. (And transoms include the stern area below the waterline, Juan.)
They go on to discuss motion control systems, and are honest enough to admit that what they're discussing is not at all what the SuperFerry has... even though it's in a link slamming the SuperFerry. If there was a point there, then... no, never mind. There simply was no point there.
"It seems likely that similar interceptors are used by the Superferry. The interceptors are fairly, simple devices. I guess is that the Superferry them mounted near the output of the 4 water jets. To turn the vessel the Interceptors on one side are lowered a short distance into the water which increases the drag on that side of the vessel - so it turns toward the other side." Pure speculation from rank amateurs, again. And those "interceptors" are exactly what I discussed before -- TRIM TABS. They are what put the boat up on plane, reducing drag and increasing fuel efficiency. And they can be used to steer the boat, if needed.
"But "interceptors" are not the same as rudders. Does the Superferrv also have more conventional rudders?" Again, we see that these folks simply don't have the first clue of what they're talking about. All this bitching, and they don't even know if the ferry HAS rudders!!! I'm laughing my a** off here!
"When Superferry officials refer to rudder damage, does this really mean damage to the interceptors?" No, grasshopper, it does not.
"And when they stated that "the rudders serve to make only slight course adjustments" were they dead wrong or just trying to minimize a serious problem?" No, the were dead RIGHT.
"Does HSF know the difference between a "rudder" and an "interceptor"?" Well, let's see. They're spending almost $200 MILLION for two ships, so maybe... just maybe... they know the difference? Jesu Christo.
The link goes on with more photos of ships totally unlike the SuperFerry.
Juan writes at one point "I seem to remember a photo of the Superferry catamaran bows showing a T-Foil on each. However, I have not been able to locate that image." No reply needed to that one.
Then he goes on to ask if the water jets are the same as rudders. Hell no they're not.
And that's more than enough. Miulang's link proved itself to be a load of nonsense written by someone who hasn't the slightest inkling of what they're seeing or saying.
And remember, folks, that Miulang wanted us to see the "technical details" at that link! That is freaking HILARIOUS!
Thanks for sharing that with us, Miulang.
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  #135  
Old February 8th, 2008, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

Breaking news:
Quote:
Hawaii Superferry will suspend service for at least two weeks starting Feb. 13 as it repairs its rudders.
The Superferry has been plagued by cancellations in the past two months, mostly due to bad weather or problems with the Maui harbor.
The company said today it would put the ship in dry dock for "approximately two weeks" for repairs related to the vessel's auxiliary rudders.
The company said it was "taking advantage of the off-peak travel season" to make the repairs. It said the repairs to the rudders will enhance passenger comfort.
"Voyages have been canceled during this period, with service expected to resume March 3," the company said.
Passengers with reservations for the two weeks will get a refund or a ticket for a later date.
"We appreciate the patience and understanding of our passengers while our vessel is out of service," said Lani Olds, a spokeswoman for the Hawaii Superferry.
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  #136  
Old February 9th, 2008, 01:32 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

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  #137  
Old February 9th, 2008, 02:34 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
Wow. Apparently the Ignore function isn't working?

Anyway. The Star-Bulletin had even more info today, including:
Quote:
The company said the mandatory annual dry dock, originally scheduled for May, was moved up to Wednesday through March 2 to take advantage of the off-peak travel season and to make permanent repairs related to the ship's auxiliary rudders.
(...)
He said the rudders, which are used to improve passenger comfort and fuel efficiency, were removed for an interim repair but that the Superferry found that without them the ride suffered.
"So we thought we'd just move up the timetable and do permanent repairs on the rudders and maximize our passenger comfort and take care of our annual dry-dock requirement at the same time," O'Halloran said.
So. It's a MANDATORY annual haul-out. And even though the AUXILIARY rudders were COMPLETELY REMOVED last week, the SuperFerry has continued to make its daily runs in complete safety, and WILL CONTINUE to make daily runs until the haulout next Wednesday.
I sure don't see anything for the SuperFerry whiners to complain about. They claim the problem is an engineering flaw that endangers the lives of passengers and crew, yet in truth it's an engineering accomplishment that the ship has run just fine with the backup rudders completely removed.
Well done, SuperFerry team!
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  #138  
Old March 8th, 2008, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

From the Advertiser's website today, Saturday, March 8, 2008:
Quote:
Superferry extends drydock repair time Advertiser Staff



Hawaii Superferry announced today that it is extending the amount
of time the Alakai will be in drydock because repair work is going to take longer
than expected.
Based on the latest repair schedule, reservations for sailings after April
22 are now being accepted. Updates on the sailing schedule will be issued as
they become available.
Passengers holding reservations for affected voyages are being notified,
booked on a future voyage or refunded.
Customers are encouraged to visit www.HawaiiSuperferry.com for the latest
travel information or they may call Hawaii Superferry's reservations at
877-HI-FERRY (877-443-3779) open daily from 6 a.m. to 7 p.m.
  #139  
Old April 3rd, 2008, 10:04 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

According to this Breaking News story today:
Quote:
The Superferry will resume service Monday between Oahu and Maui and is taking reservations now, the company announced today.
The company said the fares will be $39 one-way for passengers and $55 one-way for passenger vehicles through June 5. The fuel surcharge will be also waived. With fees and taxes, the total one-way cost for passengers is $43.46 each.
(...)
Superferry is scheduled to leave Honolulu Harbor at 6:30 a.m. daily and arrive in Kahului, Maui, at 10:15 a.m. From Kahului, the scheduled departure is 11:15 a.m. and arrival in Honolulu is 2:15 pm.
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  #140  
Old April 3rd, 2008, 11:54 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

It's good to hear this service is starting up again. People coming and going to Maui will once again have another option other than the remaining airlines in which to travel. The only thing is that Superferry needs to prove is that they can be a reliable service.
  #141  
Old April 4th, 2008, 09:57 AM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by mel View Post
It's good to hear this service is starting up again. People coming and going to Maui will once again have another option other than the remaining airlines in which to travel. The only thing is that Superferry needs to prove is that they can be a reliable service.
I wonder if the opposition to HSF has changed? A lot of things happened since the ship docked. Aloha's gone, parent owner of YB will most likely buy up Aloha Cargo for a near monopoly on interisland shipping (sea & air), and NCL has/will be sending two of their cruise ships packing. Molokai Ranch is closing and Molokai is part of Maui County. ATA has closed so I presume a few OGG to mainland flights are now gone.
  #142  
Old April 4th, 2008, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

Unfortunately the myopic people who oppose the Superferry will I think continue to do so. To them, banishment of this transportation option is the only option they want.
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  #143  
Old April 4th, 2008, 11:55 AM
Leo Lakio Leo Lakio is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by mel View Post
Unfortunately the myopic people who oppose the Superferry will I think continue to do so. To them, banishment of this transportation option is the only option they want.
Well, please remember that those who oppose it are not generally doing so for the transportation reasons, but over environmental concerns (though there is the inter-island anger that cropped up as well). In the minds of opponents, environmental issues trump human convenience.

With the changes that joshuatree noted, it may well turn out that HSF's timing was better than originally planned, and might boost their success.
  #144  
Old April 4th, 2008, 11:59 AM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

I think it may depend on what the real source of the protest was. Was it really "the people" or was there some corporation behind it?

If it was "the people" then some of them might be thinking more about jobs. Or at least their neighbors are and we'll see some counter-pressure on them.

Then again, the whole thing has had time to cool off. The agitators may have lost their momentum. They'll have to re-fire the troops.

If it was really YB, then nothing has changed.

I donno. We'll have to see.
  #145  
Old April 4th, 2008, 12:00 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

And that is why a lot of us refer to environmentalists as "whackos".
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  #146  
Old April 4th, 2008, 12:10 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by mel View Post
And that is why a lot of us refer to environmentalists as "whackos".
...and maybe that's why a lot of them refer to a lot of you as "closed-minded." (Joking with you here, mel - I don't mean "you" individually, more the group "you." "You" know what I mean ... I think ... I hope ... now I'm confusing myself ... ... ... )
  #147  
Old April 4th, 2008, 12:17 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

Has anyone figured out how much poop whales dump into the ocean? Has anyone seen whale dung? Maybe enviros should look into this. Is it time to thin the herds?
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  #148  
Old April 4th, 2008, 12:22 PM
Leo Lakio Leo Lakio is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by mel View Post
Has anyone figured out how much poop whales dump into the ocean? Has anyone seen whale dung? Maybe enviros should look into this. Is it time to thin the herds?
And if you watch fish in a tank at home, some will even eat the poop of others - that's one weird recycling program.

So...to get back on-topic: several people have mentioned how helpful it would be if HSF were to handle more inter-island traffic, especially in light of the demise of air routes. It's been a while, so if anyone could refresh my memory --- when was HSF targeting service to Hawai`i Island, and has there been any public discussion about further expansion beyond then?
  #149  
Old April 4th, 2008, 12:53 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by mel View Post
Has anyone figured out how much poop whales dump into the ocean? Has anyone seen whale dung? Maybe enviros should look into this. Is it time to thin the herds?
But, it's natural AND organic. It can't possibly be bad, can it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo Lakio View Post
could refresh my memory --- when was HSF targeting service to Hawai`i Island, and
has there been any public discussion about further expansion beyond then?
I think they were going to wait until the second ferry was delivered. I'm not sure when that was or if it's still on-track with all the stuff HSF has had to go though.
  #150  
Old April 4th, 2008, 12:59 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by mel View Post
Has anyone figured out how much poop whales dump into the ocean? Has anyone seen whale dung? Maybe enviros should look into this. Is it time to thin the herds?
Indeed. And personally, I never drink water.
Why?
Because fish pee in it.


There's a whole lot of fish peeing in the ocean. Maybe the enviros should look into that too.
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