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  #76  
Old January 15th, 2008, 02:13 PM
joshuatree joshuatree is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

So it appears the ferry has postponed the 2nd daily trip to Maui. Can't help but say the one step forward, two steps back isn't helping their business.
  #77  
Old January 15th, 2008, 02:34 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

I have an outer island friend who has put together a Super Ferry trip for two of her outer island friends, early Feb. They all have their airline tickets to fly to Honolulu, spend the night then take the afternoon SF to Maui where 2 friends live. My friend would then fly from Maui back to the BI. Of course, that's changed now and they're canceling their trips and trying to get their airfares refunded. None are interested in the SF's early departure.
  #78  
Old January 15th, 2008, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

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Originally Posted by mel View Post
One of the Superferry execs told me last week that the protests at Maui have pretty much died out.
So, where were the protesters when the National Guard used the Superferry to "mobilize" on their "aina?"
  #79  
Old January 15th, 2008, 10:11 PM
Miulang Miulang is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

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So, where were the protesters when the National Guard used the Superferry to "mobilize" on their "aina?"
Busy working their two jobs to stay alive.
And most of the heavy work had already been done in the weeks before their arrival by the Maui NG contingent.
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  #80  
Old January 16th, 2008, 04:01 AM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

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Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
Can't help but say the one step forward, two steps back isn't helping their business.
Yeah, so far they don't seem to be someone I'd want to depend on. I suppose they are trying not to anger Maui too much, but the issues raised seem like so much crying.
  #81  
Old January 16th, 2008, 10:37 PM
Miulang Miulang is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

I dunno if the concerns of the Neighbor Island folks are so manini. This is an excerpt of notes taken by an observer at the last Superferry Task Force meeting (held last week).

Quote:
Hawaii Superferry Oversight Task Force Meeting 1/10/08

[...] Dept of Ag rep Domingo Cravalho reported on their monitoring. Since DOA got no additional funds, they had to stagger schedules of staff to do the early morning monitoring on Oahu. They also did trainings with HSF staff on several islands. They have a hotline to report invasive species: 643-7378 (643-PEST). He handed out a powerpoint and photos.

DOA monitored 15 round trips O'ahu to Maui:
O'ahu to Maui leg:
2813 passangers
901 vehicles
14 instances - 39 dead bees (no mites detected)
6 instances of seeds
1 instance - 50 orchids without certification
1 case leaf litter
1 case fishing nets

Maui to Oahu leg:
2440 passangers
736 vehicles
9 instances - 67 bees (no mites detected)
7 cases of seeds
2 cases of uncertified plants (lavender and coconut)
5 instances - 9 vehicles with excessive mud
2 instances - 2 vehicles with sand and soil

DOCARE (DLNR) - Randy Awo reported that on 1/10/08, 2 cars intercepted with opihi, (One car had 5 bags of opihi hidden in a cooler under some other stuff.). 1 car with ogo.....Awo suggested that all govt enforcement officers be given power to do random searches/inspections of passengers and cars. OTF voted to recommend legislation that grants enforcement including DOCARE, DOA, etc to do searches and increase funding for these programs. Garibaldi and OHalloran both looked at each other and made funny faces....

OHalloran reported that from 12/13/07 to 1/6/08 HSF made 21 RT Oahu to Maui.
Oahu to Maui leg averaged 167 passengers and 53 vehicles.
Maui to Oahu leg averaged 157 passengers and 47 vehicles.
They sailed south of Molokai on four out of the 12 voyages in 2008.
Rest of excerpted notes (some discussion apparently will be kept confidential): http://hisuperferry.blogspot.com/
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  #82  
Old January 16th, 2008, 10:41 PM
joshuatree joshuatree is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

What would the tally be for the same time period for planes or the barges or the cargo ships? If we can get those numbers, then we have some comparison. Otherwise, this doesn't tell us anything about manini or not.
  #83  
Old January 16th, 2008, 10:57 PM
Miulang Miulang is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

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Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
What would the tally be for the same time period for planes or the barges or the cargo ships? If we can get those numbers, then we have some comparison. Otherwise, this doesn't tell us anything about manini or not.
I dunno what you're asking. But here's the daily sailing schedule for Kahului Harbor: http://hawaii.gov/dot/harbors/maui/mashipschedule.pdf. As for the airports, this might help: http://hawaii.gov/dot/airports/publi...cysmallone.pdf

I don't know where you can find comparables, because the State apparently doesn't think having the data readily available is a requirement, and the Division of Airports seems to be purging its archives.

The point of the Steering Committee Report is that some of the fears that the protestors were expressing (like the 'opihi, limu, fishing nets, dirty cars, etc.) are in fact happening, even though HSF on its website clearly specifies what can and cannot be brought aboard the boat and the condition of the vehicles it transports. And although the instances of cars caught with 'opihi and limu is small, you know it's these kinds of incidents that paint ALL people on the boat in a negative light.
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  #84  
Old January 16th, 2008, 11:14 PM
joshuatree joshuatree is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

I'm asking for the numbers on the same observed incidences for the planes, barges, or cargo ships in that same time frame. Otherwise, there's no real comparison to define what's manini or not.

We all know the same stuff gets through by the other modes of transport, so is the recorded numbers a bad thing or a reflection that the ferry is catching and filtering out the banned items?
  #85  
Old January 17th, 2008, 08:27 PM
Miulang Miulang is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

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Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
I'm asking for the numbers on the same observed incidences for the planes, barges, or cargo ships in that same time frame. Otherwise, there's no real comparison to define what's manini or not.

We all know the same stuff gets through by the other modes of transport, so is the recorded numbers a bad thing or a reflection that the ferry is catching and filtering out the banned items?
It's going to be hard to find that information because the DoA and DLNR haven't (until the HSF fiasco) really been doing much enforcement because they are short staffed. I believe there is a bill that is being submitted to the Legislature this session by one of the Maui representatives to get more funding for more DLNR agents and to give them and all other State inspectors the right to inspect and open all cargo.
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  #86  
Old January 18th, 2008, 04:22 AM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

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Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
It's going to be hard to find that information because the DoA and DLNR haven't (until the HSF fiasco) really been doing much enforcement because they are short staffed.
Well, there you go. Seems like once again HSF is getting singled out. If you're going to do inspections, do it across the board because the bad guys will just go where the enforcement isn't.
  #87  
Old January 18th, 2008, 11:23 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

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Originally Posted by GeckoGeek View Post
Well, there you go. Seems like once again HSF is getting singled out. If you're going to do inspections, do it across the board because the bad guys will just go where the enforcement isn't.
That will change if some of the Maui contingent to the Legislature actually introduce the bills they had on their "wish list". One of them was to increase funding to hire more DLNR agents and another was to give the DLNR and DoA agents the authority to inspect all cargo coming aboard planes, commercial boats and barges.
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  #88  
Old January 19th, 2008, 12:54 PM
Miulang Miulang is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

The draft of the 2030 Master Plan for Kahului Commercial Harbor has now been released by the OEQC (http://oeqc.doh.hawaii.gov/Shared%20...ter%20Plan.pdf). The alternative chosen by the DOT is the one that will create a brand new pier on the west breakwater. There will be more protests (beginning on Jan. 23) by surfers, paddlers and fishermen over the location of this new pier because it will destroy the surf breaks within the harbor and potentially eliminate the canoe course and restrict access to the small boat ramp by fishermen.

Construction of the new pier is estimated to cost more than THREE HUNDRED MILLION dollars to provide facilities for HSF and NCL.
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  #89  
Old January 19th, 2008, 06:02 PM
joshuatree joshuatree is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

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Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
The draft of the 2030 Master Plan for Kahului Commercial Harbor has now been released by the OEQC (http://oeqc.doh.hawaii.gov/Shared%20...ter%20Plan.pdf). The alternative chosen by the DOT is the one that will create a brand new pier on the west breakwater. There will be more protests (beginning on Jan. 23) by surfers, paddlers and fishermen over the location of this new pier because it will destroy the surf breaks within the harbor and potentially eliminate the canoe course and restrict access to the small boat ramp by fishermen.

Construction of the new pier is estimated to cost more than THREE HUNDRED MILLION dollars to provide facilities for HSF and NCL.
And what is your position on this plan? Yay or ney?

Seems like you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Now that there is a plan to provide adequate facilities for marine pax operations (NCL/HSF/whatver else) and to keep cargo separate, people are griping over that too. But when the state decided to take shortcuts and leave things as they are with a floating barge, people griped.
  #90  
Old January 19th, 2008, 07:04 PM
Miulang Miulang is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

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Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
And what is your position on this plan? Yay or ney?

Seems like you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Now that there is a plan to provide adequate facilities for marine pax operations (NCL/HSF/whatver else) and to keep cargo separate, people are griping over that too. But when the state decided to take shortcuts and leave things as they are with a floating barge, people griped.
I'd rather have all cruise passengers disembark on the Lahaina side because the Kahului Harbor area has virtually no tourist amenities (unless you call Maui Mall and Kaahumanu Center "tourist attractions"). Lahaina has all the touristy stuff right there in their harbor, and Princess Lines already moors its ships offshore there and ferries its passengers to Lahaina on smaller skiffs.

Leave Kahului Harbor for cargo only so there's enough room to expand. If they do build a new passenger terminal on the west breakwater, for sure foot passengers on the ferry and cruise ship passengers will need to be ferried from the pier over to Maui Mall or Kaahumanu because both are so far away. At least where NCL and HSF dock today, it's within walking distance of both shopping malls (although for cruise ship passengers it's kind of dangerous because they have to walk along Hobron, which has no sidewalks).

The current DOT Director (Michael Formby) in a backhanded kind of way basically said in the Maui News the other day that until there is a permanent dock for the ferry, there will continue to be problems. Do people realize that now the DOT has hired the services of one of the tugs now stationed in Kahului Harbor to keep the barge stable enough so cars can drive off and on the ferry? And that renting the tug costs anywhere from $1,000-2,000 an hour? (They need the tug to push the barge against the pier as long as the ferry is docked). Another added unexpected expense.
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  #91  
Old January 19th, 2008, 08:43 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

From The Maui News:
Quote:
Alakai returns to Kahului Harbor with no problems
KAHULUI – The Hawaii Superferry resumed service to Kahului Harbor on Friday morning with its damaged docking barge back in service.
Following two days of large ocean swells and heavy surge that forced Superferry to cancel operations, the Alakai made its way into Kahului as scheduled and with no problems on Friday, ferry officials said.
State Department of Transportation spokesman Scott Ishikawa said the ferry’s damaged docking barge was put back into place after inspection on Thursday. He said the “damage was not as extensive as initially feared.”
Ishikawa said that a damaged fender guard that was attached to the ferry’s docking barge was removed.
The 10-square-foot fender had hit the pier during the high surf earlier this week.
Ishikawa said there were no damages to the barge and the fender was not necessary to the barge or the ferry’s operations.
(...)
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  #92  
Old January 19th, 2008, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

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Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
Do people realize that now the DOT has hired the services of one of the tugs now stationed in Kahului Harbor to keep the barge stable enough so cars can drive off and on the ferry? And that renting the tug costs anywhere from $1,000-2,000 an hour? (They need the tug to push the barge against the pier as long as the ferry is docked). Another added unexpected expense.
And where is the link that shows us that a tug is needed every single day, and not just during the rare heavy north swells?
I believe the latter is true, and that an unverified implication that a tug is needed every single day is a fraudulent and intentional misrepresentation of the facts. Again.
I'll be more than happy to apologize if anyone can prove me wrong.
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  #93  
Old January 19th, 2008, 11:03 PM
Miulang Miulang is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

From yesterday's Maui News (http://www.mauinews.com/news/2008/1/18/01docd0118.html)

Quote:
Until a permanent ferry dock is installed, the Coast Guard has approved the use of a harbor tugboat to assist during ferry operations to hold the barge snug against the pier.

Formby said he didn’t have specific costs for the Superferry service, but said it costs $1,000 to $2,000 an hour to operate the tugs, which also assist other vessels in entering and exiting the harbor.

For the Superferry docking barge, he said, the tugboat is needed only when the ferry will be docking. He said the use of the tug is essential to keep the docking barge stable while cars are on-loading and off-loading onto the barge and the pier.
Apology accepted.
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  #94  
Old January 20th, 2008, 02:19 AM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8



I don't know if this tug is there everyday, but it certainly was on Dec. 13 when I took the Superferry on a one-day round trip to Maui and back. The water in the harbor was pretty flat that day but choppy outside.
  #95  
Old January 20th, 2008, 04:10 AM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

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Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
One of them was to increase funding to hire more DLNR agents
Fine


Quote:
Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
and another was to give the DLNR and DoA agents the authority to inspect all cargo coming aboard planes, commercial boats and barges.
Well now, how does that compare to inspection rights in other domestic travel?
  #96  
Old January 20th, 2008, 12:25 PM
Miulang Miulang is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

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Fine




Well now, how does that compare to inspection rights in other domestic travel?
They mean this to "level the playing field" so that all modes of transportation are treated equally. I seriously doubt there is anyone in Hawaii who doesn't believe that invasive species (especially) are a danger. As for the 'opihi, limu and fishing nets, that is in the province of DLNR, which is responsible for managing the natural resources, as well as the kanaka maoli's rights to things like 'opihi and limu as part of their culture.
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  #97  
Old January 20th, 2008, 01:55 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

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They mean this to "level the playing field" so that all modes of transportation are treated equally.
That's the part I said "fine" to.

What I'm questioning is how broad are other inspections in the US? On the surface, this one seems rather invasive. I'm wondering what personal rights are we giving up here? Is this in line with the agriculture inspections already done to/from Hawaii or is this even more?
  #98  
Old January 20th, 2008, 02:09 PM
Miulang Miulang is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

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Originally Posted by GeckoGeek View Post
That's the part I said "fine" to.

What I'm questioning is how broad are other inspections in the US? On the surface, this one seems rather invasive. I'm wondering what personal rights are we giving up here? Is this in line with the agriculture inspections already done to/from Hawaii or is this even more?
Hawaii ag inspections are far more stringent than anywhere else in the US simply because it would be theoretically easier to keep invasive species out of the 'aina due to its geographic isolation (the continental US has no barriers like 3,000 miles of ocean to protect it).

However, what we learned from DoA during the Maui HSF hearings and the Legislative hearings, DoA doesn't have the right to open up sealed containers coming in from outside the US (particularly China). All the inspectors can do is check the manifests to see what is in the containers. That's how a brown spider hitchhiked from China to Kalaeloa...in a shipment of boulders from China that is being used to shore up a pier at Kalaeloa.

Even for domestic (intrastate) shipments, the DoA can't open up most containers to inspect individual items, although they can visually look through slats in the containers, etc. The only exceptions might be for ag products like Christmas trees where they do actually shake down trees in a secured inspection area prior to allowing them to be released to the buyers. But if there aren't any ag products involved, and because of the scarcity of DoA inspectors and the large numbers of containers being shipped daily (80% of all goods are shipped in from outside the State), it wouldn't be practical to inspect each and every container right now.
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  #99  
Old January 20th, 2008, 02:21 PM
joshuatree joshuatree is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

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Hawaii ag inspections are far more stringent than anywhere else in the US simply because it would be theoretically easier to keep invasive species out of the 'aina due to its geographic isolation (the continental US has no barriers like 3,000 miles of ocean to protect it).

However, what we learned from DoA during the Maui HSF hearings and the Legislative hearings, DoA doesn't have the right to open up sealed containers coming in from outside the US (particularly China). All the inspectors can do is check the manifests to see what is in the containers. That's how a brown spider hitchhiked from China to Kalaeloa...in a shipment of boulders from China that is being used to shore up a pier at Kalaeloa.

Even for domestic (intrastate) shipments, the DoA can't open up most containers to inspect individual items, although they can visually look through slats in the containers, etc. The only exceptions might be for ag products like Christmas trees where they do actually shake down trees in a secured inspection area prior to allowing them to be released to the buyers. But if there aren't any ag products involved, and because of the scarcity of DoA inspectors and the large numbers of containers being shipped daily (80% of all goods are shipped in from outside the State), it wouldn't be practical to inspect each and every container right now.
Would irradiation kill these stowaways? If it would, how expensive would it be to build a container sized oven so each container runs through it? But then, I guess you need an oven sized X-ray machine to make sure you don't have any human stowaways before you zap it.
  #100  
Old January 20th, 2008, 02:41 PM
Miulang Miulang is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 8

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Would irradiation kill these stowaways? If it would, how expensive would it be to build a container sized oven so each container runs through it? But then, I guess you need an oven sized X-ray machine to make sure you don't have any human stowaways before you zap it.
Heh. That would solve one problem with illegal immigration, wouldn't it?

Homeland Security is trying to figure out how to manage inspection of sealed containers, too, for national security reasons. Maybe there will be a way for the State and the feds to work together on a system that would accomplish both at the same time. Of course, to get the State and feds to work together on anything might be a little bit of a challenge.
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