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  #1  
Old January 19th, 2007, 04:30 PM
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pzarquon pzarquon is offline
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Default Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

Ready or not, here it comes. Out of drydock today, blessing this weekend, but lots of testing will be needed before it makes its long journey from Alabama to Hawaii in April.

Hopefully some photos of the vessel itself will come across the wires in the next few days. If you missed them, the official Hawaii Superferry site has several photos of the interior.
  #2  
Old January 19th, 2007, 04:45 PM
joshuatree joshuatree is offline
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

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Originally Posted by pzarquon View Post
Ready or not, here it comes. Out of drydock today, blessing this weekend, but lots of testing will be needed before it makes its long journey from Alabama to Hawaii in April.

Hopefully some photos of the vessel itself will come across the wires in the next few days. If you missed them, the official Hawaii Superferry site has several photos of the interior.
I think those are the same stock photos from before.

Looks like they revamped the website and there's a route schedule and fare list.
  #3  
Old January 19th, 2007, 04:58 PM
Bard Bard is offline
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

It's not entirely clear from their website.. are they charging separately for cars and passengers? Or is it one of those things where you can stuff as many people in the car in addition to luggage as you want?
  #4  
Old January 19th, 2007, 05:02 PM
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

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Originally Posted by Bard View Post
It's not entirely clear from their website.. are they charging separately for cars and passengers? Or is it one of those things where you can stuff as many people in the car in addition to luggage as you want?
umm I don't think this is the Waialae Drive in. I believe all passengers are paying as is the vehicle.
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Old January 19th, 2007, 05:13 PM
joshuatree joshuatree is offline
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

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It's not entirely clear from their website.. are they charging separately for cars and passengers? Or is it one of those things where you can stuff as many people in the car in addition to luggage as you want?
Pax pay separate from the vehicle but there is no restriction on how much you want to pack your vehicle with luggage. So offhand, pax fares are more expensive than the current airfares. But if you factor in needing to rent a car and if you got ton-O-luggage, it would work out to be the better deal.
  #6  
Old January 19th, 2007, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

Look at the interior schematic at this link. Only two restrooms (one for each gender; three units in each) for 866 passengers?!?
Better learn to hold it, folks.
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  #7  
Old January 19th, 2007, 06:29 PM
joshuatree joshuatree is offline
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

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Originally Posted by LikaNui View Post
Look at the interior schematic at this link. Only two restrooms (one for each gender; three units in each) for 866 passengers?!?
Better learn to hold it, folks.

That's cuz you forget, you can do #1 over the side of the ship anytime.
  #8  
Old January 19th, 2007, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

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Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
I think those are the same stock photos from before.
Right. As I noted, I was pointing them out for those who hadn't yet seen them. I'm mostly curious about the external look and livery... mentioned in the news briefs but not accompanied by photos!
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Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
That's cuz you forget, you can do #1 over the side of the ship anytime.
Wait, was that in the EIS?

Actually, I wonder what adjustments have been made to the overall business model... since the Superferry was announced before the current interisland airfare wars. The prices they posted to transport a family of four and a minivan seemed downright reasonable against a $180 one-way ticket on Aloha Airlines in 2004. But how about against $39, or $29, or $19 fares?

True, those money-losing fares are not sustainable, but it's clear it'll be a while before airline tickets go back to where they were when the Superferry was conceived. Will the Superferry feel compelled to "price match" somehow when another volley is fired by go! or another carrier?
  #9  
Old January 19th, 2007, 06:54 PM
Leo Lakio Leo Lakio is offline
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

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Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
That's cuz you forget, you can do #1 over the side of the ship anytime.
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Originally Posted by pzarquon View Post
Wait, was that in the EIS?
No; 'twas in the Preliminary Impact Statement - Supplemental.


*ahem*




Waiting for it...
  #10  
Old January 19th, 2007, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

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Wait, was that in the EIS?
No. But that's probably why they want an EIS!
And to joshutree... yes, one of the genders can easily go over the side, but.
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  #11  
Old January 19th, 2007, 07:36 PM
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

Getting back to the topic... any thoughts at all on how the Superferry will fare against $19-$39 airfares? Is the market they serve materially different from folks who want or need to fly?

Apart from the novelty angle, would you pay $460 to take a family of five and a minivan on a five hour ferry ride to the Big Island ($70/person one way presumably from Oahu during "peak" season plus $110 for the vehicle) when you can fly everyone there in a fraction of the time and rent a van (for a day) for less?

If and when Aloha collapses and airfares go back up to $79-$149, the Superferry rates will look very attractive. And for people who plan long stays on a neighbor island and want to save on renting a car, it'll look good the day it starts running. But for quick day trips in the land of go!, I wonder...
  #12  
Old January 19th, 2007, 07:53 PM
joshuatree joshuatree is offline
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

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Originally Posted by pzarquon View Post
Getting back to the topic... any thoughts at all on how the Superferry will fare against $19-$39 airfares? Is the market they serve materially different from folks who want or need to fly?

Apart from the novelty angle, would you pay $460 to take a family of five and a minivan on a five hour ferry ride to the Big Island ($70/person one way presumably from Oahu during "peak" season plus $110 for the vehicle) when you can fly everyone there in a fraction of the time and rent a van (for a day) for less?

If and when Aloha collapses and airfares go back up to $79-$149, the Superferry rates will look very attractive. And for people who plan long stays on a neighbor island and want to save on renting a car, it'll look good the day it starts running. But for quick day trips in the land of go!, I wonder...
I think apart from the novelty, it will capture a different market. Definitely those with a fear of flying. And those who prefer to bring their own car. Let's also look at the bargain hunters, offpeak to Big Island with advance purchase. So $52/person one way and $100 for the van. So about $360 for family of 5. Ultimately, I think the ferry will capture people who intend to stay on another island for a few days and need a vehicle. Then it makes economic sense to take the boat vs plane. Last, it boils down to how much luggage are you bringing. If you're factoring in ton-O-gifts for relatives, you got to compare that to luggage limits on airlines.

Also, since price of oil has dropped lately, it's possible SF may readjust fares accordingly.
  #13  
Old January 20th, 2007, 11:35 AM
Bard Bard is offline
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

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Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
Pax pay separate from the vehicle but there is no restriction on how much you want to pack your vehicle with luggage. So offhand, pax fares are more expensive than the current airfares. But if you factor in needing to rent a car and if you got ton-O-luggage, it would work out to be the better deal.
Yeah, that makes sense. It'd probably be most economical for people with a lot of stuff or who want to stay for a while with a car. Those rental car charges add up pretty quick...

Now then... when do they start service to CA so people can take road trips to Hawai`i?
  #14  
Old January 20th, 2007, 12:58 PM
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

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Yeah, that makes sense. It'd probably be most economical for people with a lot of stuff or who want to stay for a while with a car. Those rental car charges add up pretty quick...

Now then... when do they start service to CA so people can take road trips to Hawai`i?
Not to mention the COLLISION DAMAGE WAIVER (CDW) insurance premium the car rental companies try to stick you with. That's an insurance RIP-OFF at $10/day! Think about it, that's a rate of $3650 per year!

The rental companies either self-insure or have their collision/comp coverage with a $3000 deductible. So, they scare renters with the spectre of a $3000 bill should the renters get into an accident, regardless of fault.

First of all, "fault" does matter in regard to property damage claims. Second, a driver with collision/comp coverage on his own vehicles will find that coverage "extends" to any accidents he may have with rental vehicles up to the limits of that coverage. If his deductible is $500, that's what he will be responsible for, NOT $3000. Third, if you use a major credit card (e.g. VISA, Master Card) that is a GOLD card level or higher, the CDW is covered by the credit card.

I'm a likely user of Super Ferry for a week-long visit to the Big Island. I'm waiting for the opportunity drive my own car on the open roads in a level of comfort I won't find in a U-drive.

Last edited by oceanpacific; January 20th, 2007 at 01:03 PM.
  #15  
Old January 20th, 2007, 02:04 PM
Composite 2992 Composite 2992 is offline
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

The nice part about the Superferry is the ability to load all your stuff once when leaving home. Then unloading it when you get to your hotel.

You don't have to go through all the hassle of making sure things weigh less than 50 pounds, have TSA rummage through your luggage unsupervised or risk having things stolen from your car when shipping via barge.

And now someone on Craigslist in Kauai can conveniently buy a used car from someone in Oahu.
  #16  
Old January 20th, 2007, 07:36 PM
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

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Third, if you use a major credit card (e.g. VISA, Master Card) that is a GOLD card level or higher, the CDW is covered by the credit card.
Huh, I didn't know that... thanks for the info I'll have to check into it before I go next month. I wasn't planning to do the CDW anyway just 'cause my current insurance already handles it, but it'd be nice to be responsible for zero instead of my regular deductible (not to mention potential rate hikes if anything happens).
  #17  
Old January 21st, 2007, 03:08 AM
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

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Huh, I didn't know that... thanks for the info I'll have to check into it before I go next month.
When you check into it, find out how it works. It might be that in the end they will pay up, but in the meantime, you might have to pay the rental company up front. Never checked into it myself, but seems like I've heard a horror story or two along that line.
  #18  
Old January 22nd, 2007, 09:03 PM
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

Hopefully the new Hawai'i Superferry won't suffer the same fate as the Spirit of Ontario I, which was the Austal-built ferry that local residents saw about 3 years ago on its way to delivery in Canada. The company that originally bought the vessel declared bankruptcy, sold the boat to the city of Rochester, and now, the boat is up for sale again.

Miulang
  #19  
Old January 26th, 2007, 06:57 PM
koloagirl koloagirl is offline
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Smile Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4



Common bumper-sticker here on Kaua'i -----

"SINK DA SUPER FERRY!"

I'm with them! They never did an environmental assessment on this project, consequently they are doing only the bare minimum to avoid collisions with marine wildlife (we'll have a watch onboard to look for whales!!)....same with trying to keep "invasive species" away from areas not infected (well, we'll look at the cars, and if they are dirty, we won't let them on!).....not to mention the ease at which drugs, etc. will be able to be transported inter-island....their security seems very lax at the best.....there has been pretty spirited debate about this in our "Garden Island" newspaper since it was first announced. The huge full-page ads that the Ferry people have placed are pretty tacky also.

I too initially thought this was a great idea, but like a great number of Kaua'i folks, have revised my opinion after reading more about this. I don't want more drug problems on Kaua'i, nor pests from other islands (human and otherwise) infecting the 'aina here....and what with the fare wares lately with "Go" airline....the prices aren't even that great. Let alone the time factor with travel.

I don't think anything will stop it at this point in time unfortunately, but I certainly hope that things turn out better than people have predicted. Hawai'i doesn't need another problem imported from the Mainland.

  #20  
Old January 26th, 2007, 07:39 PM
joshuatree joshuatree is offline
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

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Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
Hopefully the new Hawai'i Superferry won't suffer the same fate as the Spirit of Ontario I, which was the Austal-built ferry that local residents saw about 3 years ago on its way to delivery in Canada. The company that originally bought the vessel declared bankruptcy, sold the boat to the city of Rochester, and now, the boat is up for sale again.

Miulang
Spirit of Ontario screwed themselves up in many ways so SF will not be in the same predicament.

1) They opted for these special engines that would do very well on the lakes but they forgot they had to navigate the boat across the Pacific from Australia. End result - they prematurely burnt out their engines.

2) They tried to be cheap by flagging the boat Panamanian I think. End result - US gave them low priority treatment for any needs. Canada did the same thing to them. So they screwed themselves by winning no allies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by koloagirl View Post


Common bumper-sticker here on Kaua'i -----

"SINK DA SUPER FERRY!"

I'm with them! They never did an environmental assessment on this project, consequently they are doing only the bare minimum to avoid collisions with marine wildlife (we'll have a watch onboard to look for whales!!)....same with trying to keep "invasive species" away from areas not infected (well, we'll look at the cars, and if they are dirty, we won't let them on!).....not to mention the ease at which drugs, etc. will be able to be transported inter-island....their security seems very lax at the best.....there has been pretty spirited debate about this in our "Garden Island" newspaper since it was first announced. The huge full-page ads that the Ferry people have placed are pretty tacky also.

I too initially thought this was a great idea, but like a great number of Kaua'i folks, have revised my opinion after reading more about this. I don't want more drug problems on Kaua'i, nor pests from other islands (human and otherwise) infecting the 'aina here....and what with the fare wares lately with "Go" airline....the prices aren't even that great. Let alone the time factor with travel.

I don't think anything will stop it at this point in time unfortunately, but I certainly hope that things turn out better than people have predicted. Hawai'i doesn't need another problem imported from the Mainland.
I think there's a lot of "sky is falling" mentality in your arguments. So, just how will you look out for marine life with no one on watch? I guess maybe sonar to drive them away? As for "invasive species", again, what else do you want? A chemical spray down of the car? If so, how come you don't require it from Young Brothers when a car is shipped via barge? Drugs? Same thing, what about the barges?

Another problem imported from the Mainland? What mainland? The boats are interisland. Or are you just trying to say, keep the rest of Hawaii out of Kauai? So much for Aina.
  #21  
Old January 26th, 2007, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

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I think there's a lot of "sky is falling" mentality in your arguments.
I agree. Koloagirl's comments are way too simplistic and ignore an awful lot of FACTS. I recommend that she first read back through various Superferry threads here, and do a lot more homework on the issues involved.
For instance, I've personally seen the massive amount of whale-avoidance research and planning they've done. Far more than anything required by any federal or state environmental and wildlife agencies. And that massive research was done extremely early in the initial conceptualization stages.
And the founder of the SuperFerry is a long-term and extremely active environmentalist himself.
Please do some research, Koloagirl. And ask yourself who is behind the anti-ferry group(s), and what they gain financially if the ferry doesn't happen.
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Old January 27th, 2007, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

Whoo -- plenty of huhu after my poor little post!

Sorry that I offended you with my "simplistic" comments -- which were only offered after reading our local paper every morning and which has had much back and forth about this subject by other simpletons like me. Also local news reports, etc. I guess that doesn't count as all of us regular folks are also "simplistic" and uninformed. All of those environmental groups that seem so concerned about the Super Ferry must be pretty embarrassed to be caught out so uninformed as well.

I am no scientist or environmentalist and haven't done months of research....unlike you apprently -- I am just a resident who is concerned about the subjects that have been raised by many other people on this island.

And yes, I am always skeptical of huge, multi-million dollar projects brought here from the Mainland. I've no idea why
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Old January 27th, 2007, 06:33 PM
joshuatree joshuatree is offline
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

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Originally Posted by koloagirl View Post
Whoo -- plenty of huhu after my poor little post!

Sorry that I offended you with my "simplistic" comments -- which were only offered after reading our local paper every morning and which has had much back and forth about this subject by other simpletons like me. Also local news reports, etc. I guess that doesn't count as all of us regular folks are also "simplistic" and uninformed. All of those environmental groups that seem so concerned about the Super Ferry must be pretty embarrassed to be caught out so uninformed as well.

I am no scientist or environmentalist and haven't done months of research....unlike you apprently -- I am just a resident who is concerned about the subjects that have been raised by many other people on this island.

And yes, I am always skeptical of huge, multi-million dollar projects brought here from the Mainland. I've no idea why
I'm not offended by your comments or opposition. But I just want to know what details do you have instead of just blanket statements? I'm no scientist or environmentalist either but I did read enough of both sides to draw my conclusions. A lot of arguments made against the SF are not applied to Young Brothers. I have to ask why? Since you are skeptical, why aren't you skeptical that those who want to shut down SF may be special interests themselves? Of course they will find a banner to rally behind, in this case, environmental concerns. But I find hypocrisy when they don't apply the same pressure to YB barges or to the cruise ships that now make almost a daily port call.

I see SF having the potential to lower the cost of living within the state and that's a good enough reason for me to support it. SF, from what I can see, has made efforts to minimize their environmental footprint. I'm sure it won't please everyone no matter how much they do.
  #24  
Old January 27th, 2007, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

I am aware that some of the people who oppose the Super Ferry might be special interest folks -- but I can't ignore some of the arguments that I've read about and ultimately I trust environmentalists more than big business.
I feel there are many valid points taken that this will negatively impact the Hawaiian Islands, most specifically the environment.

While I can't be more specific and quote any of their articles (as I stated I am not obsessed with this, just reading in the paper, etc. and making my own opinion) I know that the 2 biggest things that people felt were being soft-pedaled were the concerns about collisions with marine wildlife and invasive species being introduced to areas not already infected.

What I read led me to think that the Super Ferry did not want and did not request an Environmental Impact Assessment. While I know that this is costly, I do not think that a huge project such as this that will ultimately impact the Hawaiian islands and its environment should shy away from something that would give a clearer picture to everyone on just how their project will affect the islands and its population, both human and animal.

As I said before, when this project was first introduced I thought it would be great for all of us also. Then over the course of the next year, after reading articles, editorials, etc. in the paper and the news......I have changed my mind. This is my perogative.

I hope that I am wrong since this is obviously happening whether I like it or not. Only time will tell -- let's hope that this forum a year from now doesn't have further postings discussing the latest whale fatality, etc. I remain highly skeptical.
  #25  
Old January 28th, 2007, 04:03 AM
Composite 2992 Composite 2992 is offline
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 4

Container loads of goods, as well as heavy equipment, cars, stacks of lumber and tons upon tons of materials get moved via barge to both Kauai and Maui -- and all the islands every day.

The amount of people, luggage and vehicles moved via the Superferry is dwarfed by all the other modes of transportation.

Does anyone inspect boots with lug soles to see if they're free of dirt and debris when people step off the plane? Those Vibram soles can contain a lot of unwanted seeds from invasive species. As silly as it sounds, if you go to New Zealand they'll ask to inspect your boots. I'd bet good money that no one is at the airpot in Kauai checking to see if people have clean shoes!

And is anyone inspecting the pallets of goods coming via barge to make sure nothing unwanted hides among the stacks of 2x4's, plywood and cement bags?

Again, the Superferry's contribution to this risk is small.

As for collisions with whales, what is anyone doing to make sure the Navy's own fast ships, as well as all the privately owned boats and vessels, aren't going to collide with marine mammals? Why just single out the Superferry which will make a single run to each island per day when all these other vessels can operate without the same concerns?

I'm not saying it shouldn't be done. But if the Superferry has to operate with a high level of care, then so should everyone else.
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