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  #76  
Old March 24th, 2005, 10:18 PM
waioli kai
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Default H-4, Not Wanted by Honolulu Neighbors?

H-4, Not Wanted by Honolulu Neighbors?

Quote:
With agricultural inspections and passenger identification security procedures no less effective than those of the airline industry, as a means of transport for passengers only, a six to eight hour round trip channel-crossing ferry could possibly be an enduring, desirable option for some Hawaii residents and tourists. However, given that Superferry, Inc.'s CEO Garibaldi admits "it must be remembered that if the demand for an EIS is passed into law, the Superferry's carefully crafted financing package will fall apart...EIS requirement will sink the Superferry", the certainty is presented that Superferry, Inc. has neither the financial resources nor the will to make the overall consequences of Superferry inter-island operations be more than a socially, ecologically, culturally disruptive, intrusive and destabilizing speculative commercial adventure putting the last spike into the cause for, the life of what little genuine aloha and sense of community remains on Oahu's neighbor islands after nearing two centurys' imperialUSism, capitalUSi$m, pirUSy, militarUSism, and other other fascUSt$ characteristics of the Empire of US. US being that 30% or so of the adult populace [/U] {together with their fundamentalist, right-wing, fanatic and/or, ironically, some of the most uneducated and "economically-challenged" in the adult populace of the United States} most benefiting from their Empire's vaccinations {nationalUSt$ wars for Wall Street, nationalUSt$ domestic and international economic sanctions, nationalUSt$ domestic and international subterfuge, nationalUSt$ domestic and international deceit, lies, crimes and cover-ups} toward nationalUSt$' ever greater immunization to universal moral ethical, ecological, and judicial accountability.
'Garibaldi has said the requirement would take up to a year to complete, and would jeopardize $200 million in funding for the ferry system.' Were Superferry to operate as it desires, become ever more vested in the islands' economies, it would effectively cease to be a determining issue whether or not Superferry impacted the islands' environments--- whether social, ecological, cultural or economic, because by then Superferry will indeed be established as the so-called " H-4 " , an extension of the hiways H-1, H-2, H-3 with on/off ramps at each neighbor island's port city. Once begun, Superferry would, as are FCC and FAA related corporatUSt adventures in Hawai'i, be effectively immune to Hawaii Public Utility Commission, immune to actions by neighbor island County Councils and Administrations, immune to being answerable to community concerns, immune to being held accountable for unintended enviromental impacts whether such impacts are of a cumulative nature, or not.

Once begun, Superferry H-4, need not necessarily be profitable, though if it were to prove to be marginally profitable, then to remain so, or to be even more profitable, Superferry may want to create a means to serve a market for which service, and profit from service, cannot legally exist in Hawai'i or its Territorial Waters; but, outside territorial waters such services are not federally illegal: gambling and prostitution being among such operations.

Once in service, Superferry H-4, may, like other "utilities" be essentially guaranteed by the PUC to be able to establish profitable fares, if not as well be financially susidized directly by federal and/or state governments to operate "in the national interests", "in the interests of the community" (which community? the corporatUSt community of the U.S.? the corporatUSt community of the State of Hawaii? each island's unique social, political and cultural community? the small business community? our neighborhood community? Since all together are most certainly not just one wholesome, happy, equally vested ($, $ origins, origins of birth, connection to a'ina, ...), equally secure community of humans ans other species.

'Superferry EIS

"I read with amusement the letter to the editor "Superferry" in which the individual who wrote the letter stated it was too bad the Native Hawaiians did not have environmental impact statements. Unfortunately, in the past people were allowed to ravage, waste, and destroy land and natural resources with little or no penalty or punishment. Fortunately today there are laws that protect our land and environment against selfish and abusive people and corporations.

"The second statement was that "this ain't paradise anymore". I would disagree, and I believe the majority of the people who live on this island, and the millions who come to visit, would agree that this is paradise. Anyone who does not, please move to Detroit." '--E. Voorhies

Last edited by waioli kai; March 24th, 2005 at 10:25 PM.
  #77  
Old March 24th, 2005, 10:21 PM
kimo55 kimo55 is offline
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Default Re: H-4, Not Wanted by Honolulu Neighbors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waioli kai
' Fortunately today there are laws that protect our land and environment against selfish and abusive people and corporations.

boy... how I wish that were actually true.
  #78  
Old March 25th, 2005, 04:23 AM
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mel mel is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry



The Superferry will offer Hawaii residents and visitors an affordable way for interisland travel and commerce. People will be seated in aircraft style seats and have free reign of the cabin as they pass the majestic vistas that make up the islands of Hawaii. Polls have indicated that Hawaii residents want the Superferry as an interisland transportation alternative. Save the Superferry!

_______________________________________

This is a liberal inundation zone.
  #79  
Old March 25th, 2005, 12:12 PM
waioli kai
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Default Poorer families/individuals and Superferry

I and my family were among the first aboard when Superferry prototype Spirit of Ontario was in Hawaii and open to the public. The ferry (at least when sitting still at the dock) is a remarkable boat. It is the ferry's transport of private vehicles from Oahu that I object to, not the passengers themselves. I also am sceptical of the ferry's ecological, enviromental impacts; the financing of the project; the suitability of infrastructure in neighbor island ports for docking, loading and unloading, parking, wastes collections, cargo staging areas.

Even if the price of a round trip ferry were the same price as an airline ticket I would rather load my family onto a water ferry than put us all on the same plane, although we have done the latter plenty of times.

Air vs. ferry, I think it is ridiculous to suggest that a difference of $20 or so in the cost of a passenger ticket is going to foster more residents traveling interisland, when all other costs associated with such visits remain unchanged when otherwise increasing like everything else. The poorer families and individuals of Hawaii toward whom this Superferry proposal is being marketed are also the least likely among us to be able to afford to take off from their jobs to go travelling in the first place, even if they had relatives who could accomodate the visitors with shelter and grinds when they got to the island they were to visit. As for the economically strapped, unemployed and/or unemployable "traveling" Hawaii residents, they are as likely to purchase one-way ferry tickets for themselves and a junk car to take their chances on an outer island, as to stay on Oahu and compete for shelter and whatnot.
  #80  
Old March 25th, 2005, 12:26 PM
waioli kai
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Default selfish, abusive people and corporations

' Fortunately today there are laws that protect our land and environment against selfish and abusive people and corporations.' --Eric Voorhies
"boy... how I wish that were actually true." --Kimo55
Yes, Mr. Voorhies was most likely comparing "today" with earlier times in Hawaii and elsewhere in the U.S., U.S. territories and possessions. Without such a statement as his being taken in a comparative context, it is indeed pathetically facetious.
  #81  
Old March 25th, 2005, 08:37 PM
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craigwatanabe craigwatanabe is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry

I also was one of the priviledged few that had the opportunity to board the Super Ferry when it arrived in Honolulu Harbor. It is a fantastic vessel. Also as for vehicles leaving the harbor, it is a double-deck design whereas the first level of cars exit then the ramp drops and the second level of vehicles can depart.

For me taking a car back and forth allows me as a resident of Hawaii not to have to rent a car as I had to do when I went back to Honolulu last week for a funeral at a cost of $380 for a minivan for four days. I stayed at the Queen Kapiolani and not in my rental at Kapiolani Park. I hardly think the homeless will be so much of a problem with them living in their cars.

I honestly believe the bulk of vehicular cargo will be commercial trucks and delivery vans. Imagine Frito Lay being able to drive their delivery vans onto the Super Ferry and delivering their product directly to those stores instead of having to air or ocean freight them in and rely on a third party delivery to ship to the stores! City Mill and Office Depot can now deliver to the neighbor islands without having to rely on another shipper. And Mike McKenna can deliver his new cars to each island cheaper than YB could!

That's what I envision how the Super Ferry will be transporting vehicles, more on the commercial side rather than personal and that's where I see the more negative impact being on third party delivery/shippers on the neighbor islands as well as neighbor island car dealers whose prices are noticebly higher than cars sold on Oahu.
  #82  
Old March 26th, 2005, 08:35 PM
waioli kai
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Default Superficial Savings / Superferry Hype

Superficial Savings / Superferry Hype
craig watanabe::For me taking a car back and forth allows me as a resident of Hawaii not to have to rent a car as I had to do when I went back to Honolulu last week for a funeral at a cost of $380 for a minivan for four days. I stayed at the Queen Kapiolani and not in my rental at Kapiolani Park.
You rented a minivan, why did you not rent a car, since you say, had you been able you would have paid for a car (and yourself ?) to ride (round-trip, RT, for the car? and yourself?) a water ferry over (and back?) for those four days? Did you ride the minivan alone during the funeral gatherings? How did the van's utility compare with the car you claim you prefer to have taken for the occasion?

So, over the period of four days, if you had been able to pay in advance $100 for a RT for your mechanically sound, modestly polluting, insured car compared to your renting a similar car, had you rented a mid-sized car in Honolulu for around $110 (phone quote$ Avis rep) instead of a minivan for $295 (@ $380 you must have requested "extras") you would have saved $4.
- - - - - -
craig: I hardly think the homeless will be so much of a problem with them living in their cars.
Just because one (some) of "the homeless" may be living out of a vehicle doesn't mean the vehicle belongs to the person(s). However, even assuming the possession/occupation of a car is not illegitimate, is such a person(s) and his (their) vehicle(s) more likely to "visit" from Oahu to a neighbor island, or vice versa?
- - - - - -
craig: I honestly believe the bulk of vehicular cargo will be commercial trucks and delivery vans. Imagine Frito Lay being able to drive their delivery vans onto the Super Ferry and delivering their product directly to those stores instead of having to air or ocean freight them in and rely on a third party delivery to ship to the stores!
Yes, you, I and some others imagine such newly incorporated crossing-the-channels competition against Young Brothers, such newly possible Honolulu competition against existing neighbor island delivery companies, such newly possible Honolulu competition against neighbor island WalMarts, HomeDepots, Costcos and KMarts as well as against neighbor island small businesses that have so far survived the newly emerged mega-chain stores. I've spoken with Young Brother's, existing neighbor island delivery companies reps and various small business owners....you needn't believe what I report, make some calls yourself; perhaps, you will find out that at this point in time with regard to Superferry, the vast majority of Oahu 's neighbor island independent business people can't yet see the ball, muchless pick it up and drop it!! It is no wonder Hawaii Superferry, Inc. does not want an EIS, especially as neighbor island residents become more cognizant of the most likely overall impact of investment/operation proposals of Hawaii Superferry, Inc.
- - - - - -
craig: And Mike McKenna can deliver his new cars to each island cheaper than YB could!
For a newly sold vehicle in Honolulu being ferried to a neighbor island purchaser, who would be paying the freight for the vehicle? How does to the cost of the vehicle compare to the alleged difference in cost between the vehicle's being ferried by Superferry or being ferried by Young Brothers ** ?
- - - - -

The cost to ship your vehicle will depend on the weight and the destination. Young Brothers has three automobile rates based on the weight of the vehicle:
As stated in Tariff 5-A, an "Automobile" is "any four-wheeled, rubber tired, self-propelled, passenger motor vehicle in operable condition designed for the carriage of not more than 10 passengers on public streets and highways. To include but not limited to pick-up trucks under 6,500 pounds and mini-vans. This rate does not apply to racecars on trailers, recreational vehicles (RV), buses and any vehicle over 6,500 pounds."

One Way Vehicle Rates To/From Honolulu

0 - 2,500 lbs. $128 to $149

2,501 - 4,000 lbs. $149 to $175

4,001 - 6,500 lbs. $208 to $241

In addition, Young Brothers has discounted Round Trip Return rates for vehicles returned to the port of origin within 30 days of availability at the port of destination. The shipper must provide proof of the prior movement.

Discounted Round Trip Return Rate within 30 days

0 - 2,500 lbs. $53 - $64

2,501 - 4,000 lbs. $57 - $72

4,001 - 6,500 lbs. $75 - $92

Actual freight charges may be found in the Tariff 5-A. All cargo movements are subject to wharfage.
Vehicles subject to the Roll-On/Roll Off Cargo rate is based on a cubic measurement foot rate. Actual freight charges may be found in the Tariff 5-A. All cargo movements are subject to wharfage
Just days short of the deadline to bid on the Honolulu Star-Bulletin, one potential buyer appears to be bowing out, while two others are considering joining forces.
An investor group headed by Windward auto dealer Mike McKenna yesterday notified New Mexico-based newspaper broker Dirks Van Essen & Murray it will withdraw from the process unless the Friday bid deadline is extended.
November 2004 Press Release
Hawaii Dept Commerce and Consumer Affairs
MOTOR VEHICLE LICENSING BOARD Respondent Sanction
Makena Hawai i Windward, Inc., dba Mike McKenna's Windward Ford (MVI 2003-117)
..

Last edited by waioli kai; March 26th, 2005 at 09:23 PM. Reason: adjust quote format
  #83  
Old March 27th, 2005, 07:55 AM
waioli kai
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Default Rhetoric vs. Reality

craigwatanabe August 21st, 2004 04:00 PM says:
As for the superferry, I just wished it could've come into Hilo Harbor because making that 120-mile drive to Kona to get on that ferry and back doesn't make for a pleasant weekend drive to Oahu. You'll spend about 13-hours in transit total from Hilo to Oahu. In 13-hours I could've flown to Oahu from Hilo, bought everything I needed at Ala Moana, packed and shipped UPS and flown back to Hilo and still have time to go to KTA for some light grocery shopping.
*****

Craig,
As much as your March 25th, 2005 03:37 PM post in this Superferry thread expresses your support for Superferry, apparently Superferry would not be a service that either you or many others from Hilo would be inclined to ride to Honolulu in lieu of airplanes.

Were Superferry to service Hawai'i Island and likely never be directly serving, impacting Hilo on any regular basis, does that moderate your support for Superferry in light of the opposition to Superferry expressed by those of us neighbor island residents who fully expect that Superferry will impact us directly, and, impact our communities in an overall negative way?

Also, have you looked at the schedule for the Big Island? For now this is it:
Honolulu<-->Kawaihae = one daily round trip, 4 days/week (2 off-peak days/week): Lv Honolulu 4pm, Ar Kawaihae 8pm; Lv Kawaihae 9pm, Ar Honolulu 1am to 2am.
^^ I guess the good thing for you would be that when you drove your car off the ferry ramp, you would not have to deal with much traffic. The folks on Kauai do not have quite the same "advantage" in their schedule, though it is nearly similar, whereas only one of Maui's arrival times (@ 4am) will ensure that one's debarking the ferry by motor vehicle will find roads virtually empty of all traffic.

Last edited by waioli kai; March 27th, 2005 at 10:18 AM.
  #84  
Old March 27th, 2005, 07:35 PM
waioli kai
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Default Pairodice Channels

Pairadice Channels

With regard to alleged "saving$", interisland superferried private cars vs. rental cars, my previous post "Superficial Savings / Superferry Hype" should show that for Hawaii residents' relatively brief visits to Oahu or a neighbor island, there exists no savings significant enough to warrant having one's car travel with one interisland.

So what about the alleged "saving$" for just passenger travel interisland, water ferry vs. air ferry? As there are significantly more Superferry peak days than off-peak days (albeit the $ difference is just $10/ticket), when comparing the passenger fares of air vs. water, by taking Superferry instead of a jet airplane, one might save anywhere between 18 and 20 dollars compared to an indirectly purchased airfare ticket; +$8 to -$1 on a directly purchased airfare ticket. The greatest saving$ would be equal to a passenger's getting paid $6 to $7/hour (at least it's a currently minimum wage, even if not a livable one) for the additional time the passenger would be sitting in Superferry compared to sitting in a jet for which airfare one would otherwise have purchased an $80 ticket; the least saving$ would be for those who paid a dollar, or, at best, only saved $8 in a three hour period ferrying over a channel by water, instead of ferrying over a channel by air on a directly purchased ticket. ***
*** Of course there are those Hawaii residents who prefer to view financial transactions from a perceived "greater saving$" perspective. If there is really justice in the world, those residents should by all rights be guaranteed their berth on Superferry to enjoy the rewards of their sense of frugality, right or rite?

When on board Spirit of Ontario (featured prototype for yet to be officially named/completed/fully approved by all parties including the electorate/fully vs. "creatively" funded ferry) with family, trailing in the wake of local political officialdom, at the beginning of what turned into a long line of several hundreds of interested visitors, I was not immediately thoughtful of what must have to be an accumulation of vehicle exhaust fumes during the offboarding and onboarding management (during a scheduled one hour turnaround time) of up to, or the equivalent of, more than 1000 automobiles all driven by their legitimate owners/assignees in, out, around and through a well-planned, secure and environmentally sound waiting and docking facility. Would fuel tankers, hazardous fuels/wastes/products of military, hospital, research, industrial, [ ? terror!st(s) ? ], and/or of unknown origin and/or destination be transported on Superferry below human cargo? Just what will be the wharf, auto traffic and sea vessel protocol in neighbor islands' already stressed and stretched shipping facilities?

Coupons price for fly between island to island in Hawaii,
Aloha Airlines one-way e-ticket via hawaiipackage.com : $80.00

Aloha Airlines direct via alohaairlines.com/fly/ :
Total Taxes USD 10.12
Total Airfare (including taxes) USD 69.00


/\ COMPARE to \/
Superferry : Proposed, initial,one-way passenger fare structure {Peak days: Friday to Monday; Off-peak days: Tuesdays to Thursdays}

Base Passenger Fare
$50 / $60 Maui & Kauai off-peak / peak
$60 / $70 Big Island

Advance Purchase Passenger Fare
$42 / $52 Maui & Kauai off-peak / peak
$52 / $62 Big Island

Car
$55 / $65 Maui & Kauai off-peak / peak
$65 / $75 Big Island

Pickup / Van
$90 / $100 Maui & Kauai off-peak / peak
$100 / $110 Big Island
/\ COMPARE to \/


2,501 - 4,000 lbs. $149 to $175

Discounted Round Trip Return Rate within 30 days:

2,501 - 4,000 lbs. $57 - $72
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

One ship service (2007 - mid 2008)
Proposed connection schedule
*Subject to completion of port infrastructure:

Kahului, Maui = one daily round trip, 7 days/week (2 off-peak days/week): Lv Honolulu 8am, Ar Kahului 11am; Lv Kahului Noon, Ar Honolulu 3pm :: also, 2 days/week (1 off-peak day), Lv Honolulu midnight -1am, Ar Kahului 3 - 4am; Lv Kahului 4 -5am, Ar Honolulu 7 - 8am.

Kawaihae, Hawaii = one daily round trip, 4 days/week (2 off-peak days/week): Lv Honolulu 4pm, Ar Kawaihae 8pm; Lv Kawaihae 9pm, Ar Honolulu 1am to 2am.

Nawiliwili, Kauai = one daily round trip, 3 days/week (1 off-peak day/week): Lv Honolulu 4pm, Ar Nawiliwili 7pm; Lv Nawiliwili 8pm, Ar Honolulu 11pm.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Another interesting consideration is to ponder upon the possible activity (though, ironically, it will be the hours of personal inactivity associated with such water ferry transit that defines for the passenger the activity of transiting from one island wharf to another) of crossing the channels in darkness, in storm and out. There could be some memorable sunrises and sunsets, with and without seasickness, when there are 800 or more souls aboard on their way through pairadice.

Last edited by waioli kai; March 27th, 2005 at 08:55 PM. Reason: sp
  #85  
Old March 27th, 2005, 07:56 PM
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helen helen is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry

As far as the cost and time of shipping a car interisland via Young Bros, there is the issue of getting one picked by the docks after you drop off your car to be shipped and picking it up when it gets at the destination.

At least with the Superferry you and the car travel at the same time.
  #86  
Old March 27th, 2005, 08:32 PM
waioli kai
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Default Re: Helen @ wharf for vehicle arrival

helen: "As far as the cost and time of shipping a car interisland via Young Bros, there is the issue of getting one picked by the docks after you drop off your car to be shipped and picking it up when it gets at the destination.

At least with the Superferry you and the car travel at the same time."
With Superferry won't you, or someone you assign (minus their own vehicle to get to the wharf, or at least such an assignee dropped off or accompanied by an additional driver) for the task, have to be at the wharf at the exact moment it is time to offload your vehicle? Will it be worth 3 or 4 hours of your time to babysit your vehicle across a channel if you yourself could fly across for the same price, within minus $1 or 2 to plus $8 to 10 of the price of the passenger water ferry fare?

Last edited by waioli kai; March 27th, 2005 at 09:26 PM.
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