Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

[LikaNui]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

What would $uperfascUSterry be to LikaNui if he did not have a motorcycle he wanted to take on his every whim to any non-Oahu Hawaiian island he chose?

As usual, you're making no sense. Whether I take my motorcycle, my Cherokee or just my body, it's irrelevant. I still plan to use the SuperFerry. Just as countless residents of the neighbor islands plan to do the same in reverse to O`ahu.
If you had a point, you totally failed to make it. As usual.

its not their SOP's I challenge / its their use as crowd control against US Citizens. This violates Posse Comitatus act. Federal troops being used against US Citizens.

They were being used in an enforcement and protection capacity, which is precisely their purview. You again show no knowledge of facts.

The people of Kaua'i have shown much restraint. I applaud their resolve and hope it remains non-violent.

How can something that has already turned violent "remain non-violent"? You can't un-ring that bell (if you're familiar with the term, which I sincerely doubt).

In any case (and joyously turning a deaf ear to Star Of Madness), did everyone notice that the protesters in the water last night were mostly kids and teens, as various media reported? Their parents and the protest organizers should be arrested on Child Endangerment charges and prosecuted to the full extenet of the law for putting those kids at risk.


And who are the backers of these various protest groups? Where is the Full Disclosure of their finances? How are YB and Matson and NCL hiding their donations to support the protesters very very expensive games and lawsuits?

[kamuelakea]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

When I start sounding less like my usual liberal hippie self and more like a Republican, you know things are bad!

I don't even have to go anywhere, and I want to buy tickets on the Superferry just to support 'em.

The odd combination of admitedly "Berkeley Haoles" with "Locals" or "Hawaiians" all throwing out standard protest lines without ever really explaining what exactly the Superferry is going to do that hundreds of airplanes and thousands of other boats from dingys to cruise ships aren't doing already makes me wonder.

There is something really really interesting in this whole thing. A good psychiatrist could have some fun trying to explain it all. I will take my own stab at it.

I think this has more to do with contemporary anger of "da localz" being encouraged and supported by the professional haole protestor liberal academic types.

There are a lot of angry people in Hawaii right now. I think it has to do with the doubling of housing prices in 4 years and of course the cost of everything else. "Local" people, the Davids, are afraid right now and they want to fight something, the Goliath. Rather than fight the actual causes of their misery, they go after the Goliath of the day, the Superferry. The only reason they are fighting Superferry is because it is big and new. They know they will get attention and they are striving for attention to their anger. Anger not at the actual potential effects of the Superferry but anger at themselves and their state of life. Most of the Haole professional rabble rousers came to Hawaii with some money. Enough to buy a house or at least survive. These professional protesters love to find angry and desparate locals that they can agitate to action. These Haoles have their own psychological issues and need to throw a temper tantrum every once in a while to feel powerful.

How many of these clowns with a surfboard or canoe were fighting to protect the whales before the Superferry?
How many of them were fighting to prevent biological invation of foreign species?
The traffic issue is just plain silly since the Superferry will usually pick up as many cars as it let off and the amount is negligible anyway.

Answer? None. Because the issue is really not the environmental impact of the Superferry. The issue is about angry "little people" who just need to destroy something "big" so that they feel good through revenge.

This is coming from someone who completely supports actual legitimate efforts to help whales, limit growth in Hawaii, protest native species (INCLUDING NATIVE HAWAIIAN HUMANS). But getting in the way of this one little boat doesn't have anything to do with those goals.

[Star of Gladness]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Groups unite against Superferry
Many opponents have specific concerns.

On Maui, Karen Chun learned of the Superferry when she was a coach at Na Kai 'Ewalu canoe club at Kahului Harbor, and discovered that the state planned to restrict canoe access to traditional paddling waters to accommodate the ferry. She said she became frustrated after repeatedly proposing solutions and getting no response or negative response from Superferry or the Transportation Department.

She said she proposed the ferry dock be moved so it wouldn't interfere with paddling, that an exemption for paddlers be established to the 100-yard ferry security zone, or that the ferry alter its schedule the seven or eight days a year when a canoe regatta is taking place. The response, she said, was "utter silence from the powers that be."

Karen Chun and the Kauai paddling community finally got their response yesterday!

Yesterday's crowd — mostly protesters of the Superferry and some onlookers — exceeded 300 people. At one point, there were 56 surfers, swimmers and kayakers holding station at the harbor entrance, plus several outrigger canoe crews that transited the area during their afternoon practice... (they were "greeted" by)

1. a tugboat at the harbor entrance, along with the
2. Coast Guard cutter Galveston Island,
3. three Coast Guard rigid-hulled inflatables, plus
4. a state conservation enforcement boat.
5. reinforced from Honolulu by C-130 aircraft that reportedly brought
6. more inflatable boats and crews.

I agree, the State of Hawaii is showing its true colors. Hana ino on the State and their federal guns for hire.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

How are YB and Matson and NCL hiding their donations to support the protesters very very expensive games and lawsuits?

I'd like to hear more on this front. LN, is there some evidence you can point me towards that suggests these backers, and can you help me to understand how it works to their advantage to support the protests? My knowledge is too weak in this realm.

The odd combination of admitedly "Berkeley Haoles"

And I'd definitely like to see more on that point, Kam. There must be some evidence you've seen, something you can share, since you said "admittedly" - please point me in the right direction. Thanks.

[helen]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

How are YB and Matson and NCL hiding their donations to support the protesters very very expensive games and lawsuits?

How does Matson figure into this? They don't transport people anymore and they only ship cars between the mainland and the state, not between the islands.

[Star of Gladness]

No Eis / No Parking

NO EIS / NO PARKING! ho bra, wea my $40 Million went?

Parking problems for Superferry passengers in Honolulu By Tannya Joaquin



When it comes to parking for the Superferry, it's every man or woman for him or herself.

The Niis got lucky.

"We came really early and parked across the street. You found street parking? Yes."

"Here, right off of Nimitz Highway, this is where passengers come to get on the Superferry. But, if they plan on parking anywhere near here, they'll be out of luck."

On its website, the Superferry warns customers there's no parking in or around the Pier.

This lot next to the terminal is for employees only, and clearly spells that out to anyone with other ideas.

No parking signs surround this area, leaving passengers in search of alternate transportation.

"My husband dropped me off this morning because they don't have a parking area."

"We took the City Bus."

"We see some coming on the cab."

Some found parking on side streets.

Others truly take their chances at the Kmart or Design Center parking lots, where their cars could be towed, and they have to dart across 4 lanes of traffic.

There is one other option- paid parking.

But, that has one major drawback.

"The parking is going to be more expensive than the trip."

We did catch people parking at Kmart today, but the store says it's not out of hand yet.

In any case, there's a 2 hour limit.

Superferry actually talked with Kmart about renting stalls for its employees, but passengers are on their own.

Story Updated: Aug 27, 2007 at 6:36 PM HDT

I cant believe the State spent 40 MIL on this project so far and NO PARKING.

CLASSIC STATE OF HAWAII!

How much are we spending on light rail? So what, no parking for the light rail either?

[Leo Lakio]

Re: No Eis / No Parking

I cant believe the State spent 40 MIL on this project so far and NO PARKING.

That's a tough one, though. Same at the ferry terminal in Seattle - no set-aside parking. But considering the amount of land that would be needed (in a prime real-estate area, at exhorbitant prices), I'm not sure there was ever much of an option for that, in Seattle OR on O`ahu. In addition, don't they expect most passengers will be taking their cars along - considering the price, the structure, etc.? For those who don't want to take cars, is it really more advantageous to take HSF over an airplane? (Other than the joy of being on the water, which is why I would prefer it over flying. But then, I'd take trains more often, if they were available; I enjoy slower, more scenic travel.)

[kamuelakea]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

I'd like to hear more on this front. LN, is there some evidence you can point me towards that suggests these backers, and can you help me to understand how it works to their advantage to support the protests? My knowledge is too weak in this realm.And I'd definitely like to see more on that point, Kam. There must be some evidence you've seen, something you can share, since you said "admittedly" - please point me in the right direction. Thanks.

A Haole man, looked to be in his 60s was being interviewed by one of the TV stations. He proudly proclaimed that he was part of the Berkeley riots in the 60s as he was complementing the people pounding on windows and flattening tires as being very peaceful. I'm sure someone else on this board saw it as well.

Why do they support protest? Like I said, they are chronic protestors. They have a psychological need to through tantrums. Something to do with their childhood probably but I am no psychiatrist. Come on. You know what I'm talking about. We all know what I'm talking about whether you agree with me or not.

[Miulang]

Re: No Eis / No Parking

That's a tough one, though. Same at the ferry terminal in Seattle - no set-aside parking. But considering the amount of land that would be needed (in a prime real-estate area, at exhorbitant prices), I'm not sure there was ever much of an option for that, in Seattle OR on O`ahu. In addition, don't they expect most passengers will be taking their cars along - considering the price, the structure, etc.? For those who don't want to take cars, is it really more advantageous to take HSF over an airplane? (Other than the joy of being on the water, which is why I would prefer it over flying. But then, I'd take trains more often, if they were available; I enjoy slower, more scenic travel.)

That is not an option at Kahului Harbor, either. Judge August told HSF and DOT that anybody from Maui who wasn't planning to take their car on the Alakai would have to park it 2 miles away at an overflow lot for OGG, and the DOT and HSF had to provide a shuttle service between the two points. HSF also didn't make any provisions with the nearby Maui Mall (which is owned by A&B) to try to get some space there prior to the first trip. And A&B said they would be more than willing to help out BUT HSF or DOT would have to pay for overnight parking at either Kahului Shopping Center or Maui Mall. The Maui Mall lot is usually pretty crowded with regular traffic most of the time, so A&B was suggesting Kahului Shopping Center as a temporary option. Once that area is developed, though, HSF will again be SOL because the redevelopment of Kahului Shopping Center entails a whole bunch of condos, whose owners will also need parking. Right now, A&B is ticketing and towing any cars that are left unattended at night at Maui Mall.

It didn't create too much of a problem for HSF the first couple of trips this week because most of the people who were passengers were deadheading from Honolulu and not originating in Kahului (news reports said on Sunday that of the 500 passengers and 150 cars, most turned right around and went back to Honolulu on the same day).

It's pretty obvious that HSF was not counting on very many walk on passengers because they made absolutely no provisions for parking for either walk on passengers or people who had ohana dropping them off at the ferry terminal. And that's where the EA would have been helpful in making those kinds of needs known in advance.

Nawiliwili has the same problem. When the cruise ship comes in, lots of the people on board rent cars, and those cars are the ones that are parking in the area because the cruise ship passengers go back to the boat to eat and sleep.

In a weird way, the walk on ferry passengers are being treated as second class citizens because HSF and DOT never made any real effort to make accommodations for them. They want those car driving PAX because they can make more money.

Some Maui walk on passengers could take the bus (it has a stop at Maui Mall), but the bus currently doesn't allow its passengers to bring on any baggage.

Miulang

[helen]

Re: No Eis / No Parking

For those who don't want to take cars, is it really more advantageous to take HSF over an airplane?

Speaking for myself, pier 19 is closer to home than the airport, so it will be a shorter and cheaper taxi ride. I never had a chance to check out TheBus stops around the pier 19 area.

[kamuelakea]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

This debate continues to make me laugh.

Miulang is getting into the details about cars and parking.

THE BOAT ONLY HOLD 282 CARS!!!!!!!! And it will only leave on Maui 282 MINUS whatever number they pick up. Is this really the worst most urgent and critical threat to traffic on Maui? Of course not.

And then calling the walk on passengers "second class citizens" as though they have a constitutional right to some level of service. How funny. This is a business. It is competing with airlines. If it becomes difficult for customers, they won't ride. Then they go out of business. Simple.

Why is everyone, like Miulang, all of a sudden an expert at mass transit and the Superferry in particular. You got problems? Don't ride it.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

This debate continues to make me laugh.

Miulang is getting into the details about cars and parking.

THE BOAT ONLY HOLD 282 CARS!!!!!!!! And it will only leave on Maui 282 MINUS whatever number they pick up. Is this really the worst most urgent and critical threat to traffic on Maui? Of course not.

And then calling the walk on passengers "second class citizens" as though they have a constitutional right to some level of service. How funny. This is a business. It is competing with airlines. If it becomes difficult for customers, they won't ride. Then they go out of business. Simple.

Why is everyone, like Miulang, all of a sudden an expert at mass transit and the Superferry in particular. You got problems? Don't ride it.

As riidiculous as it may sound to you, Kam, cars and where you can or cannot park them IS important to lots of people, even more than whales or the environment. HSF is only planning on 150 cars per trip to break even. At the normal rates they intend to charge, they will still get lots of people wanting to come from Honolulu to Maui but the demand isn't as great going from Maui to Honolulu. If that wasn't the case, why are there still spaces available for trips originating on Maui on Sept. 6? Check it out for yourself on the HSF website. Make a RT reservation from Maui to Honolulu and say you're taking a car on Sept. 6, returning to Kahului on Sept. 7. The cost would be $304.90 and there is space available. To be profitable, they have to have 150 cars on board both ways every day, not just on weekends.

Miulang

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

A Haole man, looked to be in his 60s was being interviewed by one of the TV stations. He proudly proclaimed that he was part of the Berkeley riots in the 60s as he was complementing the people pounding on windows and flattening tires as being very peaceful. I'm sure someone else on this board saw it as well.

On your description of that evidence, I'm not sold. I know kanaka who look VERY haole, and who's to say he isn't a local who attended Berkeley in the 1960s? Doesn't make him out to be the outside influence you seem to imply.

But then, I didn't see the footage, and you did, so your take might be accurate. But it just as easily might be an erroneous assumption. Thanks for the details, though, I appreciate the response.

[Miulang]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

The standoff at Nawiliwili Harbor continues... The protestors won last night. HSF had to turn around and return to Honolulu without landing at Nawiliwili Harbor. This story from the Garden Island News. This standoff is reminescent of the standoff between NCL and the people of Moloka'i when NCL was trying to make Kaunakaka'i a port of call. NCL lost that battle and Moloka'i can only be visited by tourists who fly there or who take the Moloka'i Princess. And now it appears that a group on Kauai is planning to enter a request for an injunction at Nawiliwili Harbor, too, after feeling encouraged by the TRO ordered on Maui yesterday.

And this from Hui-R's website:

Monday, August 27
VICTORY.
Mahalo to our community, for all the amazing things you have done!
We all know Who We Are.
Please show your support, in whatever ways you are able, for those who have been arrested during the protests.

Miulang

[kamuelakea]

Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

This standoff is reminescent of the standoff between NCL and the people of Moloka'i when NCL was trying to make Kaunakaka'i a port of call. NCL lost that battle and Moloka'i can only be visited by tourists who fly there or who take the Moloka'i Princess. Miulang

That battle at least made some sense. Molokai has a population of 7500. Pride of Hawaii can hold 3400 passengers and crew. THAT's A 50% INCREASE IN POPULATION if everybody got off the boat. That would have created an environmental impact.

This protest is a joke.

Kauai has 80,000 registered vehicles. The Superferry will probably result in a near NET increase in vehicles close to ZERO!!!!

Kauai has a population of 63,000. Superferry will probably result in a NET increase in people of ZERO!!!!

Maui has a population of 140,000.

Maui has 160,000 registered vehicles.

How does a net change of ZERO have any big impact on any of these??

Once again, this is just local anger combined with professional haole protesters throwing a childish tantrum.