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  #726  
Old August 16th, 2008, 08:07 PM
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Keanu Keanu is offline
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Default Re: Rail Transit

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Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
Couldnít have said it better myself. Kitaoka should be furious with this ruling! The fact of the matter is, itís only a preliminary injunction, so the city should appeal it. Sakamoto was obviously ruling based on personal sentiment, rather than any opinion based on law. Thatís a no-no. Kudos to Malia Zimmerman and hawaiireporter.com for giving us more insight into the courtroom antics of this shibai ruling.

I'm sure your reaction wasn't the sort of reaction Zimmerman was hoping for.
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  #727  
Old August 16th, 2008, 08:12 PM
sansei
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Red face Re: Rail Transit

hi this is sansei and i spoke with my sister on this issue and i shared with her of the judge ruling in the stop rail now coalition and how they want it on the ballot and my sister say's they do it where she live's only she dissaprove's of this is it should be up to the city's mayor who want's it the way he or she does and not from a coalition who want's to de-rail,rail and i agree with her and she say's in the city she live's in, their rail work's well and their's more rider ship there and i also agree with her on this point also.

In response to random,in my thought's,i wondered why i should vote no on this question that was posted,i thought if you vote yes,it would be ok for the mayor to build rail is we need rail,not h.ot. lane's or elevated highway's or toll b's and my sister said none of these would work here also.

Well thank's for your time
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  #728  
Old August 17th, 2008, 03:21 AM
Creative-1 Creative-1 is offline
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Default Re: Rail Transit

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Originally Posted by Keanu View Post
SRN's champion, Panos Prevedouros, is the president of Hawaii Highway Users Alliance, an advocate for pro-highway policies. How can you claim SRN is not a special interest group?
I'd define a SIG as a group who has an agenda different from the general population. Usually this means they'd benefit financially in some way, like the carpenter's union.

Stop Rail Now are taxpayers who use and pay for our transportation systems. Cliff Slater or Panos will not benefit financially any more than you or I.

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Originally Posted by Keanu View Post
I'd bet that if you ask people in San Franciso, Denver, Portland, Dallas, Minneapolis, heck even Charlotte, they'll tell you that that rail is a convenient way to travel. Rail is an alternative, it's not supposed to be "The" solution to traffic.
I'm sure some would, but most would say they rarely use it because it's inconvenient for them. Most would say it would take longer and cost more to use rail, something Honolulu will discover AFTER it's built.

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Originally Posted by Keanu View Post
I'd really like to hear Prevedouros and Slater explain how they are going to implement solution 2 and 4, or pay for solution 1. Solution 5 is not a viable option either. How are they going to move more people to the urban core, or move more jobs out to Central, Leeward, or Windward Oahu? I bet they don't have a clue.
Dedicated lanes cost much less than rail. If they were toll lanes, they'd pay for themselves (and take people off H-1).

Solution 5 is my favorite. Tax credits work across the U.S. to lure companies that create jobs. I think they'd have to be more generous than the average U.S. ($3-5,000 over 3-5 years per job).

But if they had to be $10,000 per job, this could be implemented at only 10% of the $4.6 billion cost of rail and be much more successful at taking cars off the road.

I'm sure many leeward residents would rather work near where they live.

The other solutions don't have to be massive or costly to take more cars off the road than rail.

The City says rail will take 800 cars an hour off the road (8,000 current leeward commuters; 16,000 projected in 20 years).

Of all the alternatives, rail is the least effective and costliest.

I support SRN because I feel rail is a poor choice.
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  #729  
Old August 17th, 2008, 04:04 AM
Composite 2992 Composite 2992 is offline
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Default Re: Rail Transit

According to a Star-Bulletin poll, about 15% of respondents said they used the bus. 81% drove alone.

http://starbulletin.com/2008/07/28/news/story02.html

According to an Advertiser poll, 47% said they were unlikely to use rail. However, 16% said they would use it and another 24% said they were somewhat likely. If they lived close to the line, those numbers change significantly with 23% saying they're likely to use it and 23% saying they were somewhat likely to use it. That's a much higher number in either case than currently riding the bus. Those "very unlikely" to use the rail system drops to 31%.

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/ap...807280345/1001

Gas prices is the leading incentive to use rail. Of those saying they'd use the rail system, 24% said high gas prices would be a reason for using rail transit, according to the poll. Just 8% said they'd use it to avoid traffic. Only 5% said they wouldn't use the rail because they were opposed to it.

Rail isn't just about alleviating traffic. It's also about giving citizens a mobility option. How to get to their jobs and other destinations without depending upon cars or getting stuck on a bus. It's also about energy efficiency, and that's probably one of the most forward-looking aspects of this transportation solution.
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  #730  
Old August 17th, 2008, 04:06 AM
joshuatree joshuatree is offline
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Default Re: Rail Transit

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Originally Posted by Creative-1 View Post
Dedicated lanes cost much less than rail. If they were toll lanes, they'd pay for themselves (and take people off H-1).

Solution 5 is my favorite. Tax credits work across the U.S. to lure companies that create jobs. I think they'd have to be more generous than the average U.S. ($3-5,000 over 3-5 years per job).

But if they had to be $10,000 per job, this could be implemented at only 10% of the $4.6 billion cost of rail and be much more successful at taking cars off the road.
How would toll lanes be cheaper than rail when toll lanes absolutely require the continued use of a car? So now not only does one have to deal with the cost of car ownership and maintenance, one has the additional burden of paying a daily toll. A fully deployed rail/bus system gives one the alternative of not needing a car or reducing a household's car ownership from multiple cars to a single car. This logic of just looking at the upfront price tag and ignoring all the other hidden costs of toll lanes just baffles me.

By giving tax credits to companies, are we not asking the taxpayer to fork out the money? So how is this different than the rail project? In fact, it would seem to be even more special interest as companies would benefit directly from public money. Slater is a businessman, this argument makes obvious sense of his position and as a taxpayer, I refuse to subsidize his business. In addition, there is no guarantee a person works for one company for life. What happens when a person lives in an area and works in the area but then switches jobs to another area? How much tax subsidy will be needed to keep up with this?
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  #731  
Old August 17th, 2008, 04:48 AM
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Default Re: Rail Transit

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Originally Posted by Creative-1 View Post
I'm sure many leeward residents would rather work near where they live.
Good idea. But not possible if you're an air traffic controller, nurse at Shriner's Hospital, longshoreman, downtown secretary, waiter in a Waikiki restaurant, vehicle registration clerk, UH assistant professor, Honda mechanic at Pflueger, etc.

Work is where you find it. Take a poll and you'll probably find a minority of respondents saying they took a job because it was close to home. They'll choose profession availability and pay scale first.

The question to ask is: how do you move thousands of people every single day in all weather conditions along the Honolulu transit corridor without depending upon cars, and how to do it independently of gridlocked traffic?

As for the cost of rail, the amount we spend to own and operate our cars each year at least equals what it would cost to build the entire rail system. Multiply $7,000 (a bit less than what it costs to own and operate the average car each year) by 710,000 registered owners: More than $4.97 Billion!

And if each car went 12,000 miles, getting 25 MPG, that translates into $1.4 Billion spent on gas. (340.8 million gallons of gas at about $4.30 a gallon).

These numbers aren't for statistics from the entire State of Hawaii. Just Oahu.

So the rail isn't cheap. But let's compare it to what we're doing right now.
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  #732  
Old August 18th, 2008, 03:59 AM
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Default Re: Rail Transit

I'm REALLY getting SICK of those stop rail now people, if I knew how to I'd have crashed thier website. Bitch, bitch, bitch but no solutions. Now we have one of thier buffoons saying he's going to run for mayor? I hope he gets run out on a rail (pun intended), along with the eternal bitcher Cliff Slater.
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  #733  
Old August 18th, 2008, 09:05 AM
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Lightbulb Re: Rail Transit

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Originally Posted by Keanu View Post
I'm sure your reaction wasn't the sort of reaction Zimmerman was hoping for.
Actually, I’m hoping that Zimmerman is finding her voice again. Remember, the story that made her famous was essentially, a pro-Mufi story (or at least that is the effect it had).
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  #734  
Old August 18th, 2008, 02:49 PM
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Default Re: Rail Transit

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Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
Actually, Iím hoping that Zimmerman is finding her voice again. Remember, the story that made her famous was essentially, a pro-Mufi story (or at least that is the effect it had).
I remember some sort of controversy surrounding the 2004 mayoral campaign but I had no idea the magnitude of it. Wow! Thanks for the link. I've forwarded it on to another family going thru exactly the same thing right now. So far it appears they will have a more favorable outcome than the Murasaki family but not without an inordinate amount of hard, hard work.

Sorry for derailing this thread! <pun intended...puts it back on topic!>
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  #735  
Old August 19th, 2008, 12:14 AM
Walkoff Balk Walkoff Balk is offline
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Default Re: Rail Transit

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Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
Actually, Iím hoping that Zimmerman is finding her voice again. Remember, the story that made her famous was essentially, a pro-Mufi story (or at least that is the effect it had).
But, Will she be as good as Larry Price as an investigative reporter?
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  #736  
Old August 19th, 2008, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: Rail Transit

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Originally Posted by Composite 2992 View Post
Good idea. But not possible if you're an air traffic controller, nurse at Shriner's Hospital, longshoreman, downtown secretary, waiter in a Waikiki restaurant, vehicle registration clerk, UH assistant professor, Honda mechanic at Pflueger, etc.

Work is where you find it. Take a poll and you'll probably find a minority of respondents saying they took a job because it was close to home. They'll choose profession availability and pay scale first.

The question to ask is: how do you move thousands of people every single day in all weather conditions along the Honolulu transit corridor without depending upon cars, and how to do it independently of gridlocked traffic?

As for the cost of rail, the amount we spend to own and operate our cars each year at least equals what it would cost to build the entire rail system. Multiply $7,000 (a bit less than what it costs to own and operate the average car each year) by 710,000 registered owners: More than $4.97 Billion!

And if each car went 12,000 miles, getting 25 MPG, that translates into $1.4 Billion spent on gas. (340.8 million gallons of gas at about $4.30 a gallon).

These numbers aren't for statistics from the entire State of Hawaii. Just Oahu.

So the rail isn't cheap. But let's compare it to what we're doing right now.
Most people only look for a job close to home or move close to their work, once they obtain a long-term position. Homes are no more permanent than jobs for most. Very few of us live in ancestral homes. So work may be where you find it, but so are homes. So, why don't we ensure homes are built near work (via control of building permits), rather than allowing homes to be built wherever, without regard for available jobs in the area?

Rail is not going to replace cars. Comparing rail (estimated use - less than 5% of current car commuters) to cars (more than 80% of all commuters) is a no-brainer loser for rail, since it'll cost at least 16X as much as cars do on a per person basis (assuming one person per car, 32X assuming 2 persons per car, etc). The cost estimate for cars includes all use, not just the use that could be potentially replaced by rail (which is a small fraction of the total transportation cars currently provide). What this means is that we could provide all potential rail commuters (currently using cars) with cars, insurance, maintenance and gas for all their needs for much less than the annualized cost of rail, which only serves for their commuting. No only that, but by keeping those commuters in their cars, they'll save time on their commutes, since the total time taken by rail travel will always average greater than cars. So please don't cite these ridiculous cost or time comparisons - rail loses every time.
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Last edited by salmoned; August 19th, 2008 at 05:54 PM.
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  #737  
Old August 19th, 2008, 09:19 PM
Composite 2992 Composite 2992 is offline
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Default Re: Rail Transit

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Most people only look for a job close to home or move close to their work, once they obtain a long-term position.
That's nonsense! If that were true, there wouldn't be a traffic problem today. Of all the people I have ever known or worked with -- and many could afford to buy a home or condo in most areas on this island -- only two ever chose a residence close to the office. And of of them was a minister who lived in back of his church.

One of my fellow workers was employed at the company for 50 years and lived 20 miles away from work. How's that for an example of someone NOT moving after getting a long-term position?

The plain truth is that most people don't live anywhere near their work and depend upon H1 to get them there.

Right now 15% of commuters use the bus. Polls from both newspapers indicate that about 16% to 20% will use rail, depending upon how close they live to the line. And another 20% to 26% are likely to use it, even if it means catching a feeder bus.

As gas prices go up, as the population density increases out toward Kapolei, and as parking rates rise, ridership will go up. As it is bicycle sales are increasing. There are a higher number of mopeds and scooters seen on the roads and highways. Bus ridership is growing. To say rail will be a horrible failure is, at best, a terribly pessimistic prediction.

Cars are a costly luxury of which few other countries indulge. Most don't have the level of individual ownership as we do. China's starting to go nuts with cars because no one could afford to own one until now. And with the growth of automobile traffic comes all the downsides of pollution, congestion and streets that are hostile to pedestrians and cyclists.

Efficient mass transit can alter how a population lives. Not everyone will use it, just as not everyone is willing to wear a certain color or style of shoe. But mass transit can be a good fit for a larger number of people who will choose to leave their cars at home. It means a reduction in traffic. It means a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, brake and tire dust, and noise. It means fewer drivers on the roads and fewer potentially crippling accidents. It means in the future there will be less dependency on imported oil and less need to increase the size of our already large freeways.

And rail is a good answer to the question: How to reliably move a lot of people without getting stuck in traffic and without cars? That's a question that no rail opponent has ever answered adequately.
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  #738  
Old August 19th, 2008, 10:43 PM
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Question Re: Rail Transit

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Originally Posted by Walkoff Balk View Post
But, Will she be as good as Larry Price as an investigative reporter?
I must admit, at my relatively young age, I am less familiar with Price’s work in this capacity, then in his current gig. Was his t.v. news tenure a notable stint and more pointedly, was his work related to city politics?
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  #739  
Old August 20th, 2008, 01:53 PM
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I'd say we don't have a traffic problem today. Congestion 2 to 4 hours out of 24 doesn't qualify, in my opinion. Those people who have chosen to live far from their workplace and all commute at the same time may have a traffic problem. Should we all pay for their bad choices, enable their poor decisions? As well, who is going to ride rail transit, since even the promoters agree rail travel will take longer than car travel? How many from Mililani, Wahiawa, Waianae, Nanakuli will drive to a rail station, park, walk to the station, take a train to town, then walk or take a bus to work/school (UH Manoa will not be on the line in the current version), rather than just drive straight to work? Even the promoters don't claim rail transit will significantly alleviate traffic, so it is not an issue that really addresses traffic congestion! It's just a boondoggle, designed to spend money we can ill afford on a project which will do very little to address ANY problem (traffic, pollution, mobility, etc.).
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Last edited by salmoned; August 20th, 2008 at 02:02 PM.
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  #740  
Old August 20th, 2008, 02:23 PM
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Default Re: Rail Transit

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Those people who have chosen to live far from their workplace and all commute at the same time may have a traffic problem. Should we all pay for their bad choices, enable their poor decisions?
Bad choices?

I live outside the metro area because I can't afford to live there. I'd suspect that's the case for most everyone else. Anyway, with current building height limits and other density problems, there's no way everyone who works in metro Honolulu can live there.

I have to be at work by 8. I'd suspect everyone else on the freeways at that time are in the same boat. It's not a "bad choice" on my part. I do what I'm told by my employer.
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  #741  
Old August 20th, 2008, 03:04 PM
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Default Re: Rail Transit

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I'd say we don't have a traffic problem today. Congestion 2 to 4 hours out of 24 doesn't qualify, in my opinion.
You're absolutely right.

Thousands of drivers are actually just hanging out on the freeway, dawdling along, enjoying the sunset while sipping Perrier. Sometimes they'll stop just to have a friendly chat with one another.

Instead of building rail we should extend the island. Create more land in the middle of the south shore so people can live near their work.

There's lots of wasted space that can be built up near town. A huge flat spot called Kapiolani Park can fit dozens of 40-story condos. And Diamond Head is useless if it remains empty. The City and State can then use tax records to help identify and relocate anyone working in Waikiki or going to UH.

For those who can't participate in the South Oahu Relocation Program, three more lanes can be added to the freeway in each direction. That's going to displace a few people, but they can live in the new condos at Kapiolani Park Manor. And parking will be free.

Cost? Heck, this will all be less than the $55.1 billion rail is predicted to cost. Besides, since we'll all be living in tall high-rises across the street from the office, we can set up zip lines to get us there. Zip lines are quieter than rail, except for the occasional screams of terror. But that's part of modern life. Cheaper than walking or riding a bike. Walking shoes are terribly expensive, and have you seen what bikes cost nowadays?

Yep, rail is terrorism on wheels. I don't know what planners were thinking when they proposed to have steam locomotives dragging box cars through our town.
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  #742  
Old August 22nd, 2008, 01:58 PM
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Default Re: Rail Transit

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Bad choices?

I live outside the metro area because I can't afford to live there. I'd suspect that's the case for most everyone else. Anyway, with current building height limits and other density problems, there's no way everyone who works in metro Honolulu can live there.

I have to be at work by 8. I'd suspect everyone else on the freeways at that time are in the same boat. It's not a "bad choice" on my part. I do what I'm told by my employer.
You don't live outside the metro area because you can't afford to live there. That's ridiculous, since homeless people, earning and living on much less than you, live in the metro area. Face the facts, you live outside the metro area because you have chosen to do so. Your employer didn't mandate you live far from work, you chose that location. You, as many others have, could find affordable housing in the metro area - maybe not as nice, but decent. If you and your employer don't want to take responsibility for your own choices, why should everyone else have to do so? Get a grip, employers can change hours of employment and you could live closer to work and rail transit will not significantly ease traffic congestion - even the proponents admit as much.
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  #743  
Old August 22nd, 2008, 02:22 PM
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Default Re: Rail Transit

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You don't live outside the metro area because you can't afford to live there. That's ridiculous, since homeless people, earning and living on much less than you, live in the metro area.
Ummm, Salmoned? With all due respect, "homeless people" can live in the "metro area" because, well, they live rent-free. Homeless = no home.
Quote:
Face the facts, you live outside the metro area because you have chosen to do so. Your employer didn't mandate you live far from work, you chose that location. You, as many others have, could find affordable housing in the metro area - maybe not as nice, but decent. If you and your employer don't want to take responsibility for your own choices, why should everyone else have to do so? Get a grip, employers can change hours of employment and you could live closer to work and rail transit will not significantly ease traffic congestion - even the proponents admit as much.
Wow! It appears to me that Dick has chosen to live within his means. And, yes, that is a choice. His means don't allow for metro area living. BTW, I'm self-employed and even I can't change my hours. They're dictated by my clients and deadlines. Can I say to them..."Shove it. I'm going to do this job on my time."? Sure. Will I be hired again if I said that. H3!! no.

Face the facts? The facts vary from person to person.

Affordable but decent? That's hard to find even in Waianae.

I completely, wholly, totally but respectfully disagree with you...except the part about rail not significantly easing traffic!
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  #744  
Old August 22nd, 2008, 02:33 PM
joshuatree joshuatree is offline
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Default Re: Rail Transit

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You don't live outside the metro area because you can't afford to live there. That's ridiculous, since homeless people, earning and living on much less than you, live in the metro area......
Define what's affordable so we're all on the same page. Then there can be a basis for comparison. However, using the homeless isn't a fair basis as another poster pointed out, homeless don't have rent to worry about, that's why they are homeless.
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  #745  
Old August 22nd, 2008, 02:46 PM
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Talking Re: Rail Transit

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Originally Posted by Composite 2992 View Post
Instead of building rail we should extend the island. Create more land in the middle of the south shore so people can live near their work.
Yeah! Build more buildings so we no can see the land! Screw the scenery! Screw agriculture! There is no such thing as overdevelopment!

Where do I sign up on your petition, Composite 2992?
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  #746  
Old August 22nd, 2008, 05:58 PM
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Red face Re: Rail Transit

hi this is sansei and for this time,i agree with mayor hanneman is that if the city council's question is on the ballot,i'd vote yes for rail and if stop rail now's question's on the ballot and i wont respond to their question and one thing the mayor is right that if the bill get's killed for rail,he's right when he say's we'd be sitting in trafficgridlock for many year's to come and i hope it wont come to that is that we'd wait for another 16-20 or more year's to wait for another mayor to bring up rail so i hope people would vote for the city council's question so we'd have rail and wont have to wait for 16-20 or more year's to bring up rail and that's my thought's on this.

Well thank's for your time:O)
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  #747  
Old August 22nd, 2008, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: Rail Transit

Okay, you don't appreciate the homeless as an example of people living in the metro area within their means (I can't really fathom why not - they're making economic and housing choices, too, and would be paying for rail transit just like the rest of us). So, who would qualify as an example? Do you really believe no one at your household income level lives in or moves to the metro area? I seriously doubt you could quote me a current cost for living outside the metro area that couldn't be found inside the metro area - of course the accommodations wouldn't necessarily be similar, but that's a part of the choices we all make. The metro area enjoys a full range of price options, especially when regarded over time (relocation is not impossible).

Tutusue - home is where the heart is, you should know that! We call them homeless, but that isn't really true. They can live for years in the same place, or spend just a few hours in one place before moving on to another. Their homes are on the streets, beaches, and parks, often in cubbyholes of their own design. Some property owners allow them to squat, others chase them off. It's a way of life more apt to our evolutionary heritage than what we currently deem 'civilized'.

Sansei, where is this traffic gridlock for years to come of which you and the mayor assure us (other than in the imagination of the mayor and you)? Yes, if the mayor and city council continues to allow jobs to concentrate downtown and housing to concentrate elsewhere and growth to continue unabated, we may develop traffic gridlock someday, many years in the future, but why should we allow that to happen? Why shouldn't we pursue alternatives (the second city concept is one) that will redirect traffic, or other alternatives that will actually save time, money and/or quality of life? The estimates that the mayor is relying upon state that a rail system will save drivers (not rail passengers) up to 11 minutes of commute time at best (rail commuting is not estimated to ever take less time than car commuting) - is the ongoing expense, 'temporary' years of disruption and forever displacement of some homes and businesses really worth it? Wouldn't just requiring 2 persons per vehicle on the freeway during 'rush hours' take 20 to 30% of the rush hour commuters off the road (since 80% have been estimated to drive solo) - many times the number estimated to use rail transit? Alternately, we could try a single lane for solo drivers, with the rest of the freeways open for multi-passenger vehicles. Couldn't we try a few low cost methods of traffic control before spending money we don't have on a system which may only have the effect of taking money out of your pocket and disrupting everything in it's path?

If solo drivers are causing traffic congestion, then let's make them bear the burden by reducing the lanes available to them. Why can't we elect people who can think as clearly as that? Instead of HOV lanes, we could have a solo driver lane (also open to high occupancy vehicles) during rush hours.
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Last edited by salmoned; August 22nd, 2008 at 07:34 PM.
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  #748  
Old August 22nd, 2008, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: Rail Transit

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Originally Posted by Random View Post
Yeah! Build more buildings so we no can see the land! Screw the scenery! Screw agriculture! There is no such thing as overdevelopment!

Where do I sign up on your petition, Composite 2992?
Glad you agree. I have so many wonderful and practical ideas.

As the heir apparent and self-appointed ruler of the People's Republic of Oahu, here's what I propose. Assuming, of course, that everyone agrees in this new democratic monarchy.

Build high-rises close enough together so the roof area is almost equal to the land beneath. Grow crops on the roofs. The crops will grow faster because now they're closer to the sun and make photosynthesis more efficient.

Having large structures in close proximity means less transit requirements. Especially if everyone is required to live within 200 yards of their work. For those of you employed at the sewage treatment plant, so sorry. But I'm assuming you and your family kinda got used to the smell by now.

Place HD cameras on the upper floors of the buildings and have them face the mountains and ocean. Then send the live HD images to 60" LCD screens that are installed on the walls of all the affordable metro condo units. This way everyone always gets a great view. And, instead of window washers dangling dangerously from high rises to clean walls of glass, they only have to bring along a couple of lens wipes to make sure everyone's getting a pretty picture.

Contra flow the entire freeway system in the mornings and afternoon. Everyone heads east in the morning. And everyone heads west in the afternoon. If that's not the direction you happen to want to go at that time, then you'll have to wait until the middle of the day when mauka-makai traffic is allowed. Some may not like this idea, but that's a life of efficiency in the People's Republic of Oahu.

Mass transit will not be theRail or theBus. It will be theCanal. Ala Wai Canal will be extended from Waikiki to Kapolei and it will be named the Oahu Transit Canal. It'll be at ground level so that takes care of the complaints about elevated rail lines. And it won't have the usual bus noises. Venetian gondolas will be operated which means privacy equal to that of privately owned cars. Plus someone will be singing ballads the whole time in the language of your choice. The tip money, and donations of Gatorade, will be used to fund the entire operation.

Those who don't live near theCanal will be serviced by feeder pedicabs. Some of the Gatorade donated to the guys working theCanal will be sent to help operate the feeder pedicab service.

The Oahu Transit Canal will also be the heart of aquaculture, raising tons of golden tilapia for local consumption. Just another step forward to self-sufficiency, along with produce from the rooftop farms.

With all these solutions right around the corner, who needs rail?
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  #749  
Old August 22nd, 2008, 07:48 PM
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salmoned salmoned is offline
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Default Re: Rail Transit

Composite 2992, it seems every idea of yours is unimaginably expensive - even your support for rail transit. Come up with some cheap and effective ideas, I'll listen.
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Old August 22nd, 2008, 08:14 PM
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turtlegirl turtlegirl is offline
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Default Re: Rail Transit

Quote:
Originally Posted by salmoned View Post
Wouldn't just requiring 2 persons per vehicle on the freeway during 'rush hours' take 20 to 30% of the rush hour commuters off the road (since 80% have been estimated to drive solo) - many times the number estimated to use rail transit? Alternately, we could try a single lane for solo drivers, with the rest of the freeways open for multi-passenger vehicles. Couldn't we try a few low cost methods of traffic control before spending money we don't have on a system which may only have the effect of taking money out of your pocket and disrupting everything in it's path?

If solo drivers are causing traffic congestion, then let's make them bear the burden by reducing the lanes available to them. Why can't we elect people who can think as clearly as that? Instead of HOV lanes, we could have a solo driver lane (also open to high occupancy vehicles) during rush hours.

I'm the biggest supporter I know for carpooling, but to penalize people who can't or don't is awful!!
Case in point - today I had a job interview near Hawaiikai. That's the sort of thing that one cannot carpool to. (What am I supposed to do, rent-a-friend to come with me for the freeway portion of the drive, then dump them somewhere as soon as I exit? I don't think employers like to see interviewers toting their friends into the workplace as though its some sorta picnic!)
So, according to your views, I'm supposed to spend two hours in gridlock, likely with my car overheating at least once, so as to make my appointment on time, via that solo driver lane idea of yours?? Dumb. And thats why our elected officials don't think 'as clearly' as you would like, because ideas like that are not feasable in the least.
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