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  #1  
Old August 23rd, 2012, 08:24 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Default Romney polls 0% black vote

That's right, after going to the NAACP to plead his case, he's now got a percentage rate of favorability amongst African-Americans of... ZERO.
Personally, I demand a recount, it can't be that high! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1820329.html
Add that to woefully low ratings with women, Latinos/most minorities, and gays, and it's left to the honkie vote to pull off a win for the commiecons, and he's got at least 60% of it. Hate filled willingly uninformed crackers and voter suppression are his aces in the hole in this donnybrook election year. How depressing that it's anywhere near close, we've really seen half this country turning back towards the dark ages, wanting to drag the rest of America down with them. If Dem malaise keeps any voters from the booths, we're doomed.
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 09:55 PM
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

You are saying this as if it's some sort of surprise?
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  #3  
Old August 23rd, 2012, 10:25 PM
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
...it's left to the honkie vote to pull off a win for the commiecons, and he's got at least 60% of it. Hate filled willingly uninformed crackers and voter suppression are his aces in the hole in this donnybrook election year. How depressing that it's anywhere near close, we've really seen half this country turning back towards the dark ages, wanting to drag the rest of America down with them. If Dem malaise keeps any voters from the booths, we're doomed.
Ah yes. It's the REPUBLICANS who are hate-filled. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

You know, for the first time in a very long time, I am voting for a Democratic presidential candidate this year, but language like this makes me hesitate. Part of me wants the Republicans to win just to prove you and other alarmists wrong. We are not doomed if the candidate you support doesn't win. I will agree with you that it's less than ideal if he does, but c'mon. People said the same thing when Bush beat Kerry, and while we may still be feeling certain ill effects of that election, that election did not doom us, just as this one won't no matter what the outcome.

Calm down.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 12:11 AM
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

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Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
People said the same thing when Bush beat Kerry, and while we may still be feeling certain ill effects of that election, that election did not doom us, just as this one won't no matter what the outcome.
What you're saying is that if McCain't had won we would be in as good a place today? You give no credit to Obama for pulling us ouy of Shrub's death spiral?
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Old August 24th, 2012, 12:20 AM
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

I didn't say that. But to predict doom? We've survived some pretty messed-up politics and some awful elected officials. This idea that if one side wins and the other loses we are DOOMED is contributing to the problems we're having. That Congressional gridlock the Republicans caused this past spring is symptomatic of the problem: an unwillingness to acknowledge that nobody is right about everything and nobody is wrong about everything, an unwillingness to be reasonable. The President is modeling reason rather well ('though I could do with less name-calling from him), I think. When he told Nevada supporters, "Don't boo! Vote!" it was a plea for not losing our cool.

Senator McCain, for all his missteps four years ago, had the right idea, too. For the most part, he refused to stoop to the levels of his campaigners, or even his running mate.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 01:05 AM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

Excuse me, scriv, no matter what examples you toss up to equate the vastly increasing and rampant illogical/illegitimate con hate to whatever libs may espouse is never going to jive. It's like trying to say there is no war on women by the right, when it's blatant and extreme. And no matter how much the Romney camp tries to jiu jitsu their worst negatives onto their opposition, the majority won't fall for it, nor will I allow it here. cons are all about promoting misguided hate, their followers revel in it and it's one of their best selling points. Libs merely and legitimately hate the hate and the haters. This makes you hesitate to vote sensibly?
The '12 election is indeed the pinnacle of the recent 'most important', as the SCOTUS is already split favoring the improperly partisan right vs the fair/impartial rest, and he who wins this year will overload it to reflect their ideologies for at least a decade, probably much much more. If the cons get that hold, yes, a decent America is doomed. If the libs get it, we can stave off the marauding hordes of ugly Americans that are gaining in numbers and power and preserve the chances of improving our society. What part of you can deny any of this?
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Old August 24th, 2012, 01:25 AM
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

Ron, it's clear to me that you cannot be reasonable about this, so I'm going to let my original post stand without trying to negotiate some kind of agreement between us. I respect you and your opinions, but you leave no room for sensible discourse. I will only add that people have been pointing to Supreme Court appointments as a reason for voting one way or another in Presidential elections for as long as I've been paying attention and nothing catastrophic has happened along those lines in any of that time.

It saddens me that you point to half the country and assume the people who lean that way are hateful people, or at least people motivated by hate. I'm no Republican, but soooo many people whom I love (including people in HT) are Republicans, and there's more to them than the issues that are easy to point to and cry "hate!" Senator McCain is not a hateful person; nor is Mitt Romney, no matter which issue you point to. Name-calling like this never leads to anything productive; in fact, all it does is fuel the fire.

Listen: I'm pissed off at the Republicans too. What they did in Congress this year disgusted me enough to actually vote for the Democratic president this year. But there's a valley of enormous size between spiteful, political maneuvering and hate. It's easier for us all to use emotion-laden language such as your posts are rife with than it is to reconcile our differences. I understand that you have strong feelings about the issues; why can't you understand that demonizing people who have equally strong feelings the other way are just people like you, people who care about the same stuff but have a different approach? Don't answer that. I don't know if my peacemaking sensibilities can handle reading your response.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 01:44 AM
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

Very well said Scriv!
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  #9  
Old August 24th, 2012, 02:02 AM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Default good friggin grief!

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
people have been pointing to Supreme Court appointments as a reason for voting one way or another in Presidential elections for as long as I've been paying attention and nothing catastrophic has happened along those lines in any of that time.

you point to half the country and assume the people who lean that way are hateful people, or at least people motivated by hate, but soooo many people whom I love are Republicans

why can't you understand that demonizing people who have equally strong feelings the other way are just people like you, people who care about the same stuff but have a different approach? Don't answer that. I don't know if my peacemaking sensibilities can handle reading your response.
Nothing?! You really think the partisan rightys of the SCOTUS allowing Citizens United/super pacs to totally corrupt our democratic voting system is not catastrophic?

I allow one old white republican FOX NEWS addicted couple in my life, nobody else, and it is a big intimate window into how almost all cons think. They refuse to fact check anything nazi news spews, they don't want truth to interfere with their partisan thinking. They have no clue about facts, and absolutely dispise David Letterman for merely having done his job by telling a joke about Bush. When I say innocents will die without help, they say, let them die. When liberal figurehead and musician John Lennon's picture appears on the TV they blurt out, there's another one that should just die. Trust me, this otherwise wonderful couple are blindly con partisan and full of crazy hate for those unlike themselves. We get on famously sans politics, but like their friends, if they could get away with it they would have me and my fellow libs on trains heading for the ovens. And there are about 50 mil in this country just like them.

Yes, they are different in their approach. They want me and my kind dead, but I don't tell them that my way would have their kind begging to be killed. Ugly stuff, indeed, but I didn't start it, I just react to it.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 04:30 AM
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

The fact that the hierarchy of that system denied the full humanity of Blacks cannot
be ignored.

Only a slight retraction in the late seventies disavowed earlier overt rascist proclamations.

Ezra Taft Benson was a disaffected FDR cabinet minister.
There were some ominous connections to Robert Welch,
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Old August 24th, 2012, 11:52 AM
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

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Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
It saddens me that you point to half the country and assume the people who lean that way are hateful people, or at least people motivated by hate. I'm no Republican, but soooo many people whom I love (including people in HT) are Republicans, ...
Half the country? That would be an exaggeration. But the Republican Party took a very dark turn when Richard Nixon invented "the southern strategy", which was to provide a home for the racists, misogynists, and other haters. The reasoning behind that has always been overt and completely unprincipled: win elections.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 12:56 PM
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

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Half the country? That would be an exaggeration.
Greg, it was an estimation. The last numbers I saw looked like 46% to 42% in favor of the President. That's not half, but it's a lot more than a fringe, wouldn't you agree?
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Old August 24th, 2012, 02:18 PM
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

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Greg, it was an estimation. The last numbers I saw looked like 46% to 42% in favor of the President. That's not half, but it's a lot more than a fringe, wouldn't you agree?
You were talking about the portion of the country motivated by hate. Consequently, when I said that half was an overestimate, I meant that less than half are motivated by hate. I don't understand what your 46% to 42% figure has to do with that.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 02:37 PM
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

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You were talking about the portion of the country motivated by hate. Consequently, when I said that half was an overestimate, I meant that less than half are motivated by hate. I don't understand what your 46% to 42% figure has to do with that.
No, Ron was saying that the Republican party and its supporters were motivated by hate. I was saying that accusing half the country of being motivated by hate was unfair: I know a lot of Republicans and none of them are hateful. I think that far, far, far less than half the country is motivated by hate: I was pleading with Ron not to cover Republicans with the same blanket.

Then you said half the country would be an exaggeration; I thought you were saying that my estimate that half the country was being labeled by Ron as hateful, so I thought you were questioning my estimation that about half the country supports the Republican candidate, which is where the numbers came from.

Did you think I was calling half the country hateful? On the contrary, I said
Quote:
It saddens me that you point to half the country and assume the people who lean that way are hateful people, or at least people motivated by hate.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 03:38 PM
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

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Did you think I was calling half the country hateful?
Not at all. You've been clear: Republicans may seem hateful, but they are actually quite lovable. Never mind the occasional war, subverting democratic processes, robbing the poor to give to the rich, the war on women -- just hold your nose and shut your eyes tight -- you will sense the essential goodness shining through.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 04:17 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

There are roughly 300 million people in America, there are about 100 million regular voters, and we're pretty much split at 50/50.
scriv, amongst your lovable righty friends, how often do you get into heated discussions about political views contrary to what they may hold dear, to know just how they really feel? With the righty couple I mentioned, we can get to it quickly, and know when it becomes a finger wagging duel it's time to back off.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 04:44 PM
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

Isn't it the members of the extreme right faction, the tea party, who are the most guilty of hate mongering? Seems the president of Ireland let one of 'em have it!

Ron, incessant name-calling dilutes the points you try to make. Kinda like the tea party members.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

The danger in this type of discussion occurs when we fall into generalities:
"All Republicans are ..." No, they're not ALL like that.
"Liberals only want to ..." No, they don't ALL want to do that.
"Asians are bad at ..." "Latinos are too ..." "Evangelicals can't seem to stop ..."

I know many long-time Republicans who are greatly saddened by the public image that has been created by the folks who have taken the lead of their party in recent years, and are at a loss as to how to regain control.

I know many long-time Democrats who are furious with the current administration for failing to end involvement in Afghanistan, for backing away from the promise to close Guantanamo Bay, and for caving in to demands from political opponents.

I know Asians who are excellent drivers, Latinos who are not lazy, Evangelicals who are capable of respecting other religious perspectives.

Let us remember that not all members of an organization, class or other grouping necessarily buy into the policies or behaviors of certain public representatives of those groups.

Anybody who makes a judgment about who I am simply based on learning that some facets of my value system can often be described by certain classifications (liberal or atheist or college-educated or musician or unmarried cohabitator) will invariably be wrong in some big ways - and is no better than anyone who would just look at my skin color and call me a "f--kin' haole" without knowing anything else.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 05:17 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

I don't like calling conjobs, republicans or conservatives, they don't deserve those once respectable titles, they are what they are and most readers can get past any label I may attribute. Hell, that I'm ultra liberal automatically means I'm a true conservative, these bums today aren't anything close. They constantly bow to Ronald Reagan, yet Reagan couldn't get nominated as dog catcher with them today, their endless whacko extremes make him seem the political god they say he is.
Like Barney 'see my boobies?!' Frank says, "Dems aren't perfect, but republicans are nuts!". Most cons call blacks stupid, yet they're smart enuf to easily know who to side against when voting for their, and America's, best interests.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

Quote:
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Most cons call blacks stupid...
This is why real conversation with you about these issues is impossible.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 08:12 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

I should be sorry concerning my lifetime of experience that says my words are correct? I stand by my words, no conversation is worth reversing that.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

Your words are CORRECT? Can you demonstrate that MOST conservatives call blacks stupid? This is so ridiculous I can't believe you actually think it. Come on, Ron. Do it: if you're SOOOOOOOO correct, show me some numbers that indicate that MOST CONSERVATIVES CALL BLACKS STUPID. You know you can't; all you can do is fall back on your "lifetime of experience." What kind of poor, pathetic, narrow-scoped life have you lived where you have heard MOST CONSERVATIVES CALL BLACKS STUPID?
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Old August 24th, 2012, 08:36 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

I should link a poll?!
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Old August 24th, 2012, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

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I should link a poll?!
No, Ron, you should provide links to back up your "lifetime of experience that says my words are correct". It's fine to be liberal (Democrat) just like it's fine to be conservative (Republican). It's those mega extreme views that make members of both parties look completely, utterly ridiculous. You look no better than those you accuse. And, yes, I realize you're fine with that. But it really comes down to the pot calling the kettle black.
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Old August 25th, 2012, 12:11 AM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Default Re: Romney polls 0% black vote

Scriv finds my statements inconceivable, just as I do his denials.

My views cover the entire spectrum, I'm both extremely liberal and extremely conservative, pulling out the best of all points from one end to the other. To say my extremes are equal to the myopic gutterball extreme right is a huge insult, my extremes are generally reserved for positive ends, but I'm also willing to meet them and beat them as needed. They are the enemy and getting worse, they've gone out of their way to prove it daily, what good is there in taking prisoners. If they refuse to play nice, fine, I'll see their nasty and raise them until they fold. They need to go.
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