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  #26  
Old July 6th, 2009, 07:48 PM
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Kaonohi Kaonohi is offline
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Lightbulb Darn Stagnant Politics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
One party rule can be bad, I agree. But for there to be a healthy 2 party system, the minority party (GOP) has to offer a viable message to the public rather than just being the party that says "NO!" to everything the majority party proposes.

And yes. It would also help if the Republicans maintained a stronger public image instead of making national headlines for things like extramarital affairs (John Ensign, Mark Sanford) and sudden resignations (Sarah Palin).
Well said.

One party rule is a virtual dictatorship, even if it pretends to be democratic (with a small 'd'). A healthy 2-party system (like our Federal Government) shows exchanges of power regularly. Hawai`i is predominantly Democratic and largely so ruled, and has been for a long time. If the GOP wants footing in Hawai`i, they will have to earn it; people here are reticent to change.

If you look at American History in the long term, we were infrequently locked into a stagnant 2-party system. In decades past there were viable challengers to the ruling parties, and parties often merged, disappeared, appeared or split. I would like to see a strong, supported 3rd party challenge the status quo, but most of the other parties are either one-issue parties, or too 'far-out' for most folks, or just not broad enough for popular appeal.

I think the 2-party system needs refreshing. We get the same-old arguments year after year, the same liberal vs. conservative. It's time for change alright, and I'm not talking about what our current administration has proposed (back to policies of 8 years ago), but real, new ideas. Even going back a hundred years or more to smaller government (or at least less top-heavy), fewer unnecessary laws, elimination of victimless crimes and getting religious control out of government actions.
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  #27  
Old July 6th, 2009, 08:29 PM
Ron Whitfield Ron Whitfield is offline
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Default Let's be fair and truthful...

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Originally Posted by AlohaKine View Post
The problem exists on both sides. Let's be fair.
While politics in general always attracts and generates sleaze, there is an overwhelming abundance over the left by the selfproclaimed righteous right during the last 40 years when it comes to the worst of the worst. No contest.
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  #28  
Old July 6th, 2009, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: Darn Democrats

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Originally Posted by leo lakio View Post
in a nutshell, frankie's market here sums up the issue for many of us.

Yes, there are plenty of stupid/foolish/ignorant/reckless/choose-your-adjective politicians in both major parties, as well as all the lesser ones, but it's the republican party that most strongly insists on demanding americans live by their particular value system, yet continues to violate those same values.

+ 10000000
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  #29  
Old July 8th, 2009, 02:11 PM
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Lightbulb Re: Darn Democrats

The problem with politics in America is that most people can acknowledge this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlohaKine View Post
I've found that their are both good and bad democrats and republicans. What is dangerous is when one party has so much control put into the hands of just a few party leaders that constituent issues get ignored simply because a few party bosses told your lawmaker not to listen.
Yet still look at the landscape like this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlohaKine View Post
The problem exists on both sides.
I say screw both sides. Vote independent! If enough of us do it, we can elect enough “outsiders” to affect real change. Why people don’t understand that the Dems and the GOP are the same party with different rhetoric is beyond me. Ignorance? Denial?
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  #30  
Old July 8th, 2009, 02:50 PM
Leo Lakio Leo Lakio is offline
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Default Re: Darn Democrats

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Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
I say screw both sides. Vote independent! If enough of us do it, we can elect enough “outsiders” to affect real change. Why people don’t understand that the Dems and the GOP are the same party with different rhetoric is beyond me. Ignorance? Denial?
The real "outsiders" don't run for high political office anymore; they make change at the human level, where most of us reside. They volunteer and operate grassroots organizations. The less governmental influence seems to equate to the more successful result - think "The Slippah Project"; it's a perfect example of the kind of change I believe will actually matter in our swiftly-crumbling empire. (Please note, I said "high" political office; those who want to be elected to congressional, gubernatorial, or higher national executive office these days are more interested in "power" than "change.") Last independent I supported was John Anderson, back in 1980.
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  #31  
Old July 8th, 2009, 02:56 PM
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1stwahine 1stwahine is offline
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Default Re: Darn Democrats

Pau mad.

Thanks Leo.

Auntie Lynn
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  #32  
Old July 8th, 2009, 05:24 PM
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Default Re: Darn Democrats

Leo Lakio would make a good matapule.
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  #33  
Old July 8th, 2009, 11:32 PM
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Kaonohi Kaonohi is offline
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Question Darn Democratic-Republicans!

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Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
Why people don’t understand that the Dems and the GOP are the same party with different rhetoric is beyond me. Ignorance? Denial?
I think ignorance. Most people don't realize that historically they were once the same party! (Democratic-Republican Party) They split over conflicting interests. (This is NOT taught in High School History, however!)

So we don't REALLY have the fabled two-party system others have claimed, but a split one-party system....

One answer: connect with a strong third party, and promote it.

But Jesse Ventura on Faux News? Better to research real history.....
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  #34  
Old July 8th, 2009, 11:39 PM
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Kaonohi Kaonohi is offline
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Smile Grass roots government?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo Lakio View Post
The real "outsiders" don't run for high political office anymore; they make change at the human level, where most of us reside. They volunteer and operate grassroots organizations. The less governmental influence seems to equate to the more successful result - think "The Slippah Project"; it's a perfect example of the kind of change I believe will actually matter in our swiftly-crumbling empire. (Please note, I said "high" political office; those who want to be elected to congressional, gubernatorial, or higher national executive office these days are more interested in "power" than "change.") Last independent I supported was John Anderson, back in 1980.
Absolutely, Leo!

Top-heavy, ineffective government (except for the military-industrial complex - very effective!), innured to the will of the people, who have been lulled into a false sense of security by economic well-being... how long before it cracks under the pressure of inflation and debt?

Much is being done by independent projects and grassroots organizations. We are in a better place because of them.
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  #35  
Old July 9th, 2009, 12:52 AM
Leo Lakio Leo Lakio is offline
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Default Re: Darn Democrats

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Originally Posted by matapule View Post
Leo Lakio would make a good matapule.
I am humbled by such a suggestion - but I am a long way away from such honor.
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