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  #1  
Old December 20th, 2008, 04:57 AM
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Default Stairway to Heaven

I can see it from the H-3. I know they renovated it in 2002. I saw people hiking on it last week. So my question is, if one hypothetically wanted to take a hypothetical hike on it (and would not be so discourteous as to park their car in someone's neighborhood), where exactly would one go to access it? Just for informational purposes. Like for a paper one was writing for school or something.
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  #2  
Old December 20th, 2008, 06:27 AM
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Post Re: Stairway to Heaven

Well... SITE shares this info:
"Trailhead Location:
The stairs begin in a forested area about 25 yards mauka (South) of a point about 200 yards in along the H-3 access road. This restricted-access, gated, asphalt road is beneath the H-3 Highway and contours along the base of the cliffs. It was built to allow construction crews access to the completion of the windward side of H-3 in 1996.

Accessing the Trail:
At present, there is no legal entrance to Haiku Stairs. Expect to be turned away or cited by Honolulu Police. Hikers who have been illegally accessing the trail have been using the H-3 access road via a gated entrance along Puuoni Place (past Haiku Gardens). Hikers have been parking in the residential area which is limited and frowned upon by residents.

Beware: some of the residents of Haiku are extremely hostile toward hikers attempting Haiku Stairs. In their irritation over these hikers utilizing Puuoni Pl, they have managed to get hikers' cars cited or towed."

I haven't been since the seventies.
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  #3  
Old December 20th, 2008, 09:07 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to Heaven

Please send 'hypothetical' pictures.
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  #4  
Old December 21st, 2008, 12:37 AM
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Post Re: Stairway to Heaven

Google image search for Haiku Stairs turned up many pages of photos.
http://images.google.com/images?gbv=...s&start=0&sa=N
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  #5  
Old December 21st, 2008, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: Stairway to Heaven

My house looks directly toward the stairs. Helicopters are
constantly flying over our neighborhood doing tours. I used to enjoy watching them refurbish it, guys hiking up with supplies
everyday and such.
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  #6  
Old December 22nd, 2008, 03:25 AM
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Angry No Access to Stairway to Heaven under Mufi.

He says:
"We don't need it, we can't afford it."
Goofy Mufi is too worried about lawsuits against the city - no matter what he says - Sacred Falls was open for over 50 years until there was a landslide, now there's another natural resource we can no longer access because of a paranoid government.

MUFI HAS PTSD!

Originally the Haiku Stairway was built by the Coast Guard for their crews to access the antenne which used Haiku Valley for long range radio access to submarines. LORAN, I think they called it.

In the days when LORAN was active, we kids could sneak in under the antenna wires and the charrge given out was so strong it would light up 4-foot flourescent tubes like Jedi lightsabers. Great fun!

Global radio sattelites eliminated the need for LORAN, and the antennas were cut down, and H-3 was planned. (H-3 would have been unlikely if the LORAN was active, and some plans were made for shielding before the LORAN became obsolete.)

When H-3 was in the planning stages, a notable archeologist named Buddy Neller (Famous for discovering and identifying and explaining numerous archeological sites around Oahu) discovered an important heiau in the path of H-3. It could have been avoided at the cost of about 10 million dollars or so, and Buddy Neller spoke out. It wasn't Musfi at that time, but other politicians who decided that Hawaiian ancestry was less important than Federal Dollars (the main reason to build H-3 in the early 1980's). Buddy Neller was censured, fired, and essentially denied any opportunity in Hawaii. Because he was right.

The heiau was buried under H-3 forever. Those of us who protested had our hearts buried with it. Never again will we trust any government agency in Hawaii - state, county, city or locality.

Appropriately, access to Starway to Heaven has been promised and blocked, - promised and blocked, - promised and blocked, - promised and blocked, - promised and blocked, - promised and blocked, - promised and blocked.

I am one who was lucky enough to have climbed the Stairway. The climb is safe, but challenging. Strenuous, but infinately rewarding. The view from the top of the Ko`olau, and all the way up, is spectacular, inspiring. There is nothing like it.

Even the view from the end of the Aiea trail to the Ko`olau ridge (7 miles past the 2.5 mile middle of the Aiea Loop Trail) pales in comparison.

Taking the Stairway to Heaven aay from the People of Hawaii is equivalent to the theft of cultural treasure buried by the H-3 heiau theft.

Criminals are running our government, and if you make a complaint (try it!) you will be greeted with:
'the safety of the populace' (no one has ever been injured on the Stairway)
'the need of the people for efficient transport' (H-3 could have avoided the heiau)
'the interests of the residents' (where else are resident's concerns taken into consideration? I cannot stop 'hunters' from coming through my property and defacing my fences, according to HPD)

Time for me to shut up.

I WANT THE STAIRWAY BACK - FOR US AND FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS!
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  #7  
Old December 22nd, 2008, 03:32 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to Heaven

Let your politicians know:
We have a RIGHT to access the Stairway!
Denying access is denying our rights!
No one has been injured on the Stairway.
This is a VALUABLE Hawaii natural Resource!
Denying us access is counter to the spiritual legacy of Hwaii!
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  #8  
Old December 22nd, 2008, 02:53 PM
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Post Re: Stairway to Heaven

There are sooo many places around Hawai'i that general public access has been denied.
Haiku Stairs, Sacred Falls, Hanauma Bay's Toilet Bowl, Manoa Falls pond, and more...
Coming soon, Koko Crater hike and...

All truly because the Hawaii State and City & County governments can't figure out proper signage to relieve us all from the financial responsibility of what a private citizen chooses to do.

If someone walks past a sign that states... "Beyond this point, you are solely responsible... blah, blah. blah.

Other places around the country and world still have access to perceived dangerous spots. Why can't we?
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  #9  
Old December 23rd, 2008, 01:50 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to Heaven

So the best I can find is something called Omega Station? Looks like everyone whose gone has studied topography maps or something. I'm not that great at orientation. All these people can find the trailhead...it's GOT to be there somewhere. And that one website has removed anything helpful. Grrr.
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  #10  
Old December 23rd, 2008, 02:11 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to Heaven

Sorry, SG - if you go ahead & take this hike (just because you've seen other lawbreakers doing it) & get injured, or have your car towed for illegal parking or if you get cited for trespassing, I will not have any sympathy for you. I will not want to listen to your whining because you got caught.

Why is it that so many think that rules and laws just do not apply to them if they want something? I've just never understood that.
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  #11  
Old December 23rd, 2008, 02:13 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to Heaven

Haha, my bf would hypothetically love to egg the houses of people who complain too much about nothing, and hypothetically get hikers cars towed!! Cuz hypothetically speaking, there's nothing wrong with getting some fresh air and exercise, and parking on roads that our hypothetical tax dollars paid for paving!

So, when do we, hypothetically, of course, do the stairs?
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  #12  
Old December 23rd, 2008, 02:38 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to Heaven

Quote:
Originally Posted by anapuni808 View Post
Sorry, SG - if you go ahead & take this hike (just because you've seen other lawbreakers doing it) & get injured, or have your car towed for illegal parking or if you get cited for trespassing, I will not have any sympathy for you. I will not want to listen to your whining because you got caught.

Why is it that so many think that rules and laws just do not apply to them if they want something?...
Well, you've never been the most sympathetic in the past so why should anything change now. I promise, you are the last poster anybody should come 'whining' to.

Why are the rules and laws so arbitrary?

Give me a waiver to sign that says "I promise to be very careful with my life and safety, and I swear not to sue anybody for any risk I may take", then get outta the way. Like anybody wants to hurt themselves and sue, save for a handful of sickos....!

Hypothetically speaking.
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  #13  
Old December 23rd, 2008, 02:55 AM
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Cool Re: Stairway to Heaven

What a bunch of wimps we are in Hawai`i.

Government should be our servant, instead it is our master.

The police don't enforce the laws unless it's easy for them, punishing the law-abiders and letting the violators skate. (This is one of Boise's biggest frustrations, and a big source of internal conflict at HPD.)
We vote only for incumbents and vigorous sign-wavers.
We knuckle-under to government incompetency (such as access to our valuable natural resources).

Time to organize, and take a stand, folks....

What's that? A luau? Oh, where? when?
OK, I guess our riot can wait till next week, I guess....
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Last edited by Kaonohi; December 23rd, 2008 at 02:56 AM. Reason: schpelling
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  #14  
Old December 23rd, 2008, 03:10 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to Heaven

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlegirl View Post
Well, you've never been the most sympathetic in the past so why should anything change now. I promise, you are the last poster anybody should come 'whining' to.

Why are the rules and laws so arbitrary?

Give me a waiver to sign that says "I promise to be very careful with my life and safety, and I swear not to sue anybody for any risk I may take", then get outta the way. Like anybody wants to hurt themselves and sue, save for a handful of sickos....!

Hypothetically speaking.
Perhaps because folks will go ahead & sign a waiver, get injured and then go "oh darn, I didn't really mean that waiver so I'm going to sue the C&C for my injuries anyway"? Believe me, that has happened before. Again, because so many don't feel that the rules & laws apply to them.

So TG - no, I'm not very sympathetic to folks who break the law just because they feel like it. and I don't feel bad about it at all.
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  #15  
Old December 23rd, 2008, 03:54 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to Heaven

I think your ire towards the mayor is misplaced. If anything is to be blamed, it's the out-of-control litigation that has plagued our society. Whenever someone gets hurt, even if it is caused by an act of Mother Nature (i.e. Sacred Falls landslide) or by one's own carelessness/stupidity, the first thought of too many people are: who can we sue?

Blame Mufi if you want. But things won't change no matter who is the mayor. What's really needed to make a difference is litigation reform.
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  #16  
Old December 23rd, 2008, 04:27 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to Heaven

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlegirl View Post
Give me a waiver to sign that says "I promise to be very careful with my life and safety, and I swear not to sue anybody for any risk I may take", then get outta the way. Like anybody wants to hurt themselves and sue, save for a handful of sickos
I don't think it's simple as you think. Sure you sign the waiver, you do the hike and nothing bad happens, so that's great right.

But what happens if you do get hurt and you can't get out, what happens then? Do we send the rescue squad to get you, risking their lives for situation that shouldn't happen in the first place?

So then you say that's okay, if you get hurt on the trail, just leave you there till you die, you signed the waiver right. So now two things happen. 1) Hawaii get's bad press because we let residents and/or tourist die on the hiking trails and 2) you as a hiker go on these trails and you encounter a dead decompossed body and you say "How come the local government don't clean up this mess?"
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  #17  
Old December 23rd, 2008, 12:40 PM
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Default Re: Stairway to Heaven

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie's Market View Post
But things won't change no matter who is the mayor. What's really needed to make a difference is litigation reform.
This is one of the biggest problems I see in America today. I agree wholeheartedly.
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  #18  
Old December 23rd, 2008, 04:53 PM
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Post Re: Stairway to Heaven

Quote:
Originally Posted by anapuni808 View Post
...- no, I'm not very sympathetic to folks who break the law just because they feel like it. and I don't feel bad about it at all.
In my opinion, there should be signage that's adequate to relieve the costs of rescue (charge it to the the rescued) and to keep the State & County governments safe from financial responsibility of litigation. So that these types of areas are still open and accessible for those that wish.

I've been going to the Hanauma Bay "Toilet Bowl" since I was a kid, till the area was closed in the mid-nineties. Now, it's illegal to go and a $500 fine if you're caught past the fence. Uncool! I love that place and miss it dearly.
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Old December 24th, 2008, 01:10 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to Heaven

No matter what the signage says, or how many waivers are signed - there will always been an attorney who can file a lawsuit and get around any restrictions. I think this difference of opinion all comes down to an age thing: older residents understand what rules & laws mean. and we tend to respect them more. The younger folks (Gen X & Y for example) think that all all rules are meant to be broken and that they don't apply to them in the first place. and yes, that is a generalization - not always accurate. so apologies to all you young'uns who don't live that way.

and I'm really tired of seeing our tax dollars go to pay off some fool who decided to go where they weren't supposed to, suffered some loss, got a smart lawyer and decided to sue for whatever they could get. it just shows a great lack of ethics and principles.
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  #20  
Old December 24th, 2008, 02:13 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to Heaven

Quote:
Originally Posted by Menehune Man View Post
I've been going to the Hanauma Bay "Toilet Bowl" since I was a kid, till the area was closed in the mid-nineties. Now, it's illegal to go and a $500 fine if you're caught past the fence. Uncool! I love that place and miss it dearly.
I was a volunteer at Hanauma Bay during the '90s, so if Toilet Bowl has been closed, it was sometime after 2000 or thereabouts. Can't begin to tell you how many people were removed by ambulance and medevac helicopter, all with neck and spine injuries. TB is fun, but the edges stick out over the water and if you aren't in the middle when the surge lifts you... SNAP goes the neck.
TB is easy to jump into but pretty hard to climb out on those rounded slippery rocks. Had to help a slew of people out over the years.
As for signage and lawyers, anybody remember that genius idiot teenager who ignored all the signs and fences and jumped into Halona Blowhole and died? And his parents sued the state!
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Old December 24th, 2008, 02:16 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to Heaven

thank you for that sad example. I'd forgotten about him. thats a very good example of how folks just ignore warning signs.
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  #22  
Old December 24th, 2008, 02:19 AM
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Default Re: Stairway to Heaven

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Originally Posted by anapuni808 View Post
thank you for that sad example. I'd forgotten about him. thats a very good example of how folks just ignore warning signs.
It was July 2002, and one story about it is at this link.
Google "Halona Blowhole death" for more.
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Old December 24th, 2008, 02:46 AM
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Cool Re: Stairway to Heaven

Quote:

MenehuneMan

All truly because the Hawaii State and City & County governments can't figure out proper signage to relieve us all from the financial responsibility of what a private citizen chooses to do.

If someone walks past a sign that states... "Beyond this point, you are solely responsible... blah, blah. blah.

Other places around the country and world still have access to perceived dangerous spots. Why can't we?
and
In my opinion, there should be signage that's adequate to relieve the costs of rescue (charge it to the the rescued) and to keep the State & County governments safe from financial responsibility of litigation. So that these types of areas are still open and accessible for those that wish.

__________________

Bob

I think your ire towards the mayor is misplaced. If anything is to be blamed, it's the out-of-control litigation that has plagued our society. Whenever someone gets hurt, even if it is caused by an act of Mother Nature (i.e. Sacred Falls landslide) or by one's own carelessness/stupidity, the first thought of too many people are: who can we sue?

Blame Mufi if you want. But things won't change no matter who is the mayor. What's really needed to make a difference is litigation reform.

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anapuni808

No matter what the signage says, or how many waivers are signed - there will always been an attorney who can file a lawsuit and get around any restrictions.

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"In America, if an American falls down they immediately look for a lawyer and try to find out who to sue."
(Frankly I think the lawyers look for injured Americans!)
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Yes, litigation reform. No argument.
However, I can blame Mufi because he is the one who can DO something about it -- and he doesn't.

I can also blame Mufi that the C&C is building flower pots (planters) along the walls of lower Kahekili Highway, spending (I hear) millions of taxpayer dollars on cosmetics instead of doing the necessary Kahekili upgrades, fixing the Kahalu`u (Kam/Kahekili) Interchange, widening Kahekili between Temple Valley and Haiku, relieving identified traffic jam intersections in Temple Valley.

"Do we need it? Can we afford it?" Mufi has rapidly forgotten his campaign promises. And he knows that in Hawai`i, 'Once an incumbent, always an incumbent.' No worries.

Do we need flowerpots? We sure need traffic relief more!

MUFI: Do we need HIM? Can we afford HIM?

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  #24  
Old December 24th, 2008, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: Stairway to Heaven

Why would this be considered an 'age thing'? Gen x & y learned a lot from the older generations, as no kid is born with a complete set of morals and values. They are learned. From the adults around them. Parents, teachers, neighbors, other adults who that child maybe hasn't ever met, also. Therefore, any percieved shortcomings of the younger generations can likely be traced back to things learned from the older ones.

Additionally, I don't think that there's a very high percentage of lawyers in the 18-28 age range. It takes a little more age and experience to successfully practice law. Additionally, again, there don't seem to be any lawmakers in this great state under the age of 35. So, how again can 'lack of ethics and principles' be blamed on young people?

And where were that teenage boy's parents? Any responsible adult should know not to let teenagers run around in near potential danger unsupervised. Maybe the older generations should be paying more attention?
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Old December 24th, 2008, 01:29 PM
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Default Re: Stairway to Heaven

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlegirl View Post
Why would this be considered an 'age thing'? Gen x & y learned a lot from the older generations, as no kid is born with a complete set of morals and values. They are learned. From the adults around them. Parents, teachers, neighbors, other adults who that child maybe hasn't ever met, also. Therefore, any percieved shortcomings of the younger generations can likely be traced back to things learned from the older ones.

Additionally, I don't think that there's a very high percentage of lawyers in the 18-28 age range. It takes a little more age and experience to successfully practice law. Additionally, again, there don't seem to be any lawmakers in this great state under the age of 35. So, how again can 'lack of ethics and principles' be blamed on young people?

And where were that teenage boy's parents? Any responsible adult should know not to let teenagers run around in near potential danger unsupervised. Maybe the older generations should be paying more attention?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_E._Schatz

Here's a young lawmaker he just turned 36.
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