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  • Hawaiian Airlines Signs With Airbus

    Not quite interisland but HA finally is making a big play. Planning on spending $4.4 billion on an all new Airbus fleet, 6 A330s and 6 A350XWBs with options for 6 more of each model, total 24. Nice!!!! Looks like Airbus was able to woo HA away from Boeing.

    Now, let's see what they'll do with the interisland fleet.

  • #2
    Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

    its nice to know that HA is going to be providing jobs in europe as opposed to here in the usa.....another good reason to use another carrier when possible.
    the bigger the government the smaller the citizen.

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    • #3
      Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

      I find it somewhat troubling that Hawaiian would go with the European Airbus. I would have preferred if they went with the U.S. Boeing 787 as their next generation jet. But then again, Hawaiian has not had a long history with Boeing. They were mostly McDonnell-Douglas through most of their existence and flew aircraft from various manufacturers including Convair, Shorts and Lockheed.

      Indeed it will be interesting to find out what the next gen interisland aircraft will be for Hawaiian. The pool of available Boeing 717s is small given that the aircraft went out of production after only a few years.

      What will Aloha obtain to replace their aging 737-200 interisland fleet.
      I'm still here. Are you?

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      • #4
        Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

        Mel, dont forget, HAL's recent bankruptcy was a sham designed to force Boeing into cheaper leases. Yes, HAL & Boeing do not have a very good relationship. maybe Aloha will buy the 787's once go! is gone.

        The press release says the ScAirbus can go 69,000 miles! I wonder if the crew gets OT on that one?

        If its not Boeing, i'm not going!

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        • #5
          Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

          Originally posted by mel View Post
          I find it somewhat troubling that Hawaiian would go with the European Airbus. I would have preferred if they went with the U.S. Boeing 787 as their next generation jet. But then again, Hawaiian has not had a long history with Boeing. They were mostly McDonnell-Douglas through most of their existence and flew aircraft from various manufacturers including Convair, Shorts and Lockheed.

          Indeed it will be interesting to find out what the next gen interisland aircraft will be for Hawaiian. The pool of available Boeing 717s is small given that the aircraft went out of production after only a few years.

          What will Aloha obtain to replace their aging 737-200 interisland fleet.
          Why would it be troubling? I'm more of a Boeing fan than Airbus but I've rode on Airbuses before and they are a great product too. Like you said, Hawaiian never really had a long history with Boeing. The bankruptcy probably created some bad blood between the two as well. Right now, it seems Hawaiian chose Airbus probably for the following factors.

          1) They already use RR engines on the 717 and the A330/A350s will be RR engines too, simplifying some of the maintenance work.

          2) For immediate needs, the A330 is a better product than the 767 and HA will be able to lease some as early as 2009. The A330 has better range so this should help with the immediate expansion plans of Manila, maybe some East Coast cities?

          3) Airbus probably gave some pretty good terms on the A350 since they are trying to catch up to the 787 in terms of sales. Not to mention since the A350 will debut years later than the 787, it probably will have even better features by the time it rolls out.


          Originally posted by Star of Gladness View Post
          Mel, dont forget, HAL's recent bankruptcy was a sham designed to force Boeing into cheaper leases. Yes, HAL & Boeing do not have a very good relationship. maybe Aloha will buy the 787's once go! is gone.

          The press release says the ScAirbus can go 69,000 miles! I wonder if the crew gets OT on that one?

          If its not Boeing, i'm not going!
          I'm sure the 69,000 mile is a typo but even you think the HA bankruptcy was a sham. So how do you separate HA from go! when it comes to ethics? Even AQ's bankruptcy I think is a scam, an easy way to shed off some debt.

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          • #6
            Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

            Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
            Not quite interisland but HA finally is making a big play. Planning on spending $4.4 billion on an all new Airbus fleet, 6 A330s and 6 A350XWBs with options for 6 more of each model, total 24. Nice!!!! Looks like Airbus was able to woo HA away from Boeing.

            Now, let's see what they'll do with the interisland fleet.
            It makes perfect sense for them to be going after the direct foreign markets, with the US economy headed for the tank and the US dollar sinking faster than a lead balloon. US economists are predicting major layoffs next year due to fallout from the subprime slump, and if the price of oil stabilizes near $100/barrel, people's buying power in the US will be less and there will be less discretionary spending for things like vacations.

            It's also why Mesa is headed to China, because the wealth there is growing, as is the demand for air travel. If AQ had the financial backing and more fuel efficient planes, I'm sure they'd be looking to expand their territory outside of Hawaii and the US West Coast, too.

            HA does have a good reputation in the "premium" airline category, which certainly will help in their marketing efforts abroad. The Boeing 787s won't be ready for another 2 years now due to production delays, and if HA wants to get going on its expansionist plans, it can't wait for the next gen Boeing planes.

            Miulang
            "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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            • #7
              Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

              Originally posted by Star of Gladness View Post
              The press release says the ScAirbus can go 69,000 miles! I wonder if the crew gets OT on that one?
              Non-stop? No way.

              It took extremely precise engineering, along with absolutely minimal equipment and wings full of fuel to fly non-stop around the world just once. More than 24,000 miles depending on routing. First by Burt Rutan and Jeanna Yeager. Then solo by Steve Fossett.

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              • #8
                Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

                Originally posted by joshuatree View Post

                2) For immediate needs, the A330 is a better product than the 767 and HA will be able to lease some as early as 2009. The A330 has better range so this should help with the immediate expansion plans of Manila, maybe some East Coast cities?

                3) Airbus probably gave some pretty good terms on the A350 since they are trying to catch up to the 787 in terms of sales. Not to mention since the A350 will debut years later than the 787, it probably will have even better features by the time it rolls out.
                Taking into account that the earliest 787 delivery slots are available in 2013,that probably was a factor in their decision to go with Airbus.

                As for A350, I'm holding my final opinion until we know more about it. Originally they were only going do minor changes to the A330 and re-name it A350. When that was obviously insufficient to compete with the 787, Airbus did a total re-design. Which means the A350 won't be available until middle of the next decade.
                Check out my blog on Kona issues :
                The Kona Blog

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                • #9
                  Re: Hawaii's Interisland Air War - Chapter 4

                  Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                  . US economists are predicting major layoffs next year due to fallout from the subprime slump,

                  The overall economy is heading to a huge slump. The subprime crisis is only one of many reasons why we are heading towards a recession.
                  Check out my blog on Kona issues :
                  The Kona Blog

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                  • #10
                    Re: Hawaiian Airlines Signs With Airbus

                    There's been quite a bit of chatter on aviation forums and some speculate that perhaps Hawaiian might want to try and tap into the very profitable London-Sydney route and the London-Auckland route. For the most part, these two routes make a stop either in Hong Kong, Singapore, or Dubai for their respective hometown airline, Cathay Pacific, Singapore, and Emirates. Anyone think a Sydney-Honolulu-London or Auckland-Honolulu-London route would work? This could give new life to HNL as a hub again since most planes these days do not need to make a stop in HNL when flying transpacific.
                    Last edited by joshuatree; November 29, 2007, 07:24 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Hawaiian Airlines Signs With Airbus

                      Way to expand that PUALANI theme HAWAIIAN!!!!!
                      Show`um the Hawaiian Style, it`s all about the ALOHA....
                      bin dea-dunn dat.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hawaiian and Airbus

                        Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                        Why would it be troubling? I'm more of a Boeing fan than Airbus but I've rode on Airbuses before and they are a great product too. Like you said, Hawaiian never really had a long history with Boeing. The bankruptcy probably created some bad blood between the two as well. Right now, it seems Hawaiian chose Airbus probably for the following factors.
                        I guess "troubling" is too strong of a word. Perhaps "disappointed" is a better term. I would like to see our own U.S. aviation industry buy planes from home vs. that of the European consortium... that's all. But I guess Hawaiian carefully mulled over this proposal and found that it fit with their future expansion plans better than what Boeing has to offer.

                        I am aware of the Airbus A330, but was not very aware of the A350, which seems to be Airbus's answer to the Boeing 787.

                        Personally for long range flight I would prefer a 4-engine jet vs. a twin jet mainly because of the redundancy of having 2 extra engines instead of only relying on 2 engines and ETOPS certification.... I think the Airbus A340 is a good looking plane and I have always been a fan of the Boeing 747.

                        I've never ridden an Airbus. I am sure they are about the same as a Boeing. I don't do much out of state travel.
                        I'm still here. Are you?

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                        • #13
                          Re: Hawaiian Airlines Signs With Airbus

                          Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                          There's been quite a bit of chatter on aviation forums and some speculate that perhaps Hawaiian might want to try and tap into the very profitable London-Sydney route and the London-Auckland route. For the most part, these two routes make a stop either in Hong Kong, Singapore, or Dubai for their respective hometown airline, Cathay Pacific, Singapore, and Emirates. Anyone think a Sydney-Honolulu-London or Auckland-Honolulu-London route would work? This could give new life to HNL as a hub again since most planes these days do not need to make a stop in HNL when flying transpacific.

                          Those routes already stop in Los Angeles or Hong Kong/singapore. Airlnes are trying to avoid making a stop over in the US due to pax having to deplane , get finger printed etc. it's just a hassle.

                          Air Canada is already beginning nonstop Vancouver/Sydney flights eliminating the HNL stopover. Air New Zealand already flies London to Auckland via Los Angeles or HK. Qantas thru Bangkok of Singapore (Sydney to London).

                          I dont think Hawaiian is as competitive on service vs. QF or NZ or any of the asian airlines for the business traveler. Current First Class on Hawaiian is akin to an "economy plus" on other airlines. They would have to remodel their entire classes of service to compete. Aircraft such as the A380, the 777, 787 and I suppose the A350 are trying to make nonstop sydney and london a reality.

                          It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. My guess is these new aircraft will be mainly on North American routes (Vancouver, Toronto, New York, Chicago, Atlanta style destinations). But who knows. 2017 is a long time. 10 years ago Hawaiian was flying those old shiny silver DC10's.

                          Why isn't HA competing to JAL to Japan?

                          If British Airways or Virgin Atlantic were to find it lucrative to fly here, then they would already be doing so, but I've not heard of any euro airline with plans to fly here. Just not lucrative enough. Air France is the only euro airliner flying to the south pacific, from Paris to Tahiti via Los Angeles, but that is mainly due to its territory status (DOM) and long ties between France and French Polynesia.
                          Last edited by Kaukura; November 29, 2007, 08:46 PM.
                          n'importe

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                          • #14
                            Re: Hawaiian and Airbus

                            Originally posted by mel View Post
                            I've never ridden an Airbus. I am sure they are about the same as a Boeing. I don't do much out of state travel.
                            True. An aircraft is basically an aircraft. It really depends on how the particular airline configures theirs. You could take an ancient Aloha 737 and make it the most comfortable a/c you've ever flown if you wanted by replacing everything.
                            n'importe

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                            • #15
                              Re: Hawaiian and Airbus

                              Originally posted by mel View Post
                              I guess "troubling" is too strong of a word. Perhaps "disappointed" is a better term. I would like to see our own U.S. aviation industry buy planes from home vs. that of the European consortium... that's all. But I guess Hawaiian carefully mulled over this proposal and found that it fit with their future expansion plans better than what Boeing has to offer.
                              Maybe it was just the cheapest deal they could find. I understand that there are many airline passengers who prefer bargain deals over any kind of loyalty to a local provider.

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