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Ted Stevens Found Guilty

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  • #16
    Re: Ted Stevens Found Guilty

    Originally posted by matapule View Post
    How do you justify people who vote for convicted felons to represent them?
    Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
    By returning Sen. Stevens to the Senate, if he resigns or is ousted, the Governor (and we know who that is) is pretty much obligated to name a Republican as his temporary replacement, thus keeping that seat in GOP hands. That's what the voters may have chosen to do.
    Thanks, Leo. I’m sure many of the voters were aware of the situation, and would not have picked Stevens if they thought he would serve out his term. This is why I think matapule is being somewhat presumptuous with his scathing indictment of the Alaska people.
    Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
    according to the last news I read - Begich is beginning to pull ahead. Just by a few votes right now but there are still about 40,000 votes to be counted.
    You are correct, Fran. According to the Alaska Office of Elections, as of November 12 at 7:33 p.m., Begich is actually leading Stevens by 814 votes, or 0.29%.

    We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

    — U.S. President Bill Clinton
    USA TODAY, page 2A
    11 March 1993

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Ted Stevens Found Guilty

      Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
      I’m sure many of the voters were aware of the situation, and would not have picked Stevens if they thought he would serve out his term.
      You are being "somewhat presumptuous" for making that presumption.

      This is why I think matapule is being somewhat presumptuous with his scathing indictment of the Alaska people.
      Let me be more inclusive then. My scathing indictment also includes the electorate of New Orleans who have re-elected Congressman Bill Jefferson to another term while under indictment for corruption. Since he has not been convicted like Stephens, I gave the voters a pass for the time being. I would also like to include the electorate of Washington DC who re-elected their mayor after serving jail time for a felony conviction.

      I admit that I am naive. I thought politics was supposed to be an honorable endeavor - public servant and all that. Silly me for being such an idealist.
      Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

      People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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      • #18
        Re: Ted Stevens Found Guilty

        Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
        Interesting that only the day before, Stevens was in the lead by some 3,200 votes,.... but with nearly 80,000 ballots not counted! How could that many ballots not be tabulated on election day?
        Maybe the ballots are being delivered by bush pilots and sled dogs.

        Another weird twist in this story is that the juror who was dismissed from deliberations because her father died was lying. According to the Washington Post, she actually went on a vacation to see the Breeders Cup horse race. She didn't expect the trial to last so long and didn't want to miss her flight.
        Last edited by localmoco; November 13, 2008, 12:00 PM.

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        • #19
          Re: Ted Stevens Found Guilty

          Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
          Interesting that only the day before, Stevens was in the lead by some 3,200 votes,.... but with nearly 80,000 ballots not counted! How could that many ballots not be tabulated on election day? And judging by the 40,000 of those uncounted ballots that have finally been processed earlier today, it appears that this batch of votes are favoring the Democratic candidate. Something appears to be terribly amiss.
          Without knowing the circumstances (in other words - I'm just making a slightly educated guess), it's possible that these are (a) absentee ballots that came in at the deadline (in many parts of the country, "deadline" means postmarked on Election Day, so it can take several more days to come in), and there are limits as to how many can be counted per day (some of the best machines can do 100,000 a day, older ones do far less); (b) provisional ballots - where voters whose names are absent from the rolls are permitted to fill out a ballot, but it takes time to investigate whether or not said voter should be counted; (c) otherwise damaged or questionable ballots that need to be carefully hand-counted. In addition, many jurisdictions only have the staff available to do a fresh count every few days - they can't count remaining ballots every minute of every workday.
          Originally posted by matapule View Post
          I thought politics was supposed to be an honorable endeavor - public servant and all that. Silly me for being such an idealist.
          Perhaps once upon a time, and perhaps to a select few candidates still, but for the most part, sadly, no. Thank you for being an idealist, however.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Ted Stevens Found Guilty

            Originally posted by localmoco View Post
            Another weird twist in this story is that the juror who was dismissed from deliberations because her father died was lying. According to the Washington Post, she actually went on a vacation to see the Breeders Cup horse race. She didn't expect the trial to last so long and didn't want to miss her flight.
            Be that as it may, the Anchorage Daily News says that not only will the juror avoid any penalty for her lies, it shouldn’t have any effect on Stevens’ appeal. The bigger news out of Alaska today, is that Mayor Mark Begich has increased his lead over Ted Stevens to 1,022 votes or 0.35%. Considering 90% of the vote has now been counted and the remaining ballots are mostly from pro-Begich areas, I hope this somewhat vindicates the “integrity” of Alaska voters.

            We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

            — U.S. President Bill Clinton
            USA TODAY, page 2A
            11 March 1993

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Ted Stevens Found Guilty

              Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
              The bigger news out of Alaska today, is that Mayor Mark Begich has increased his lead over Ted Stevens to 1,022 votes or 0.35%. Considering 90% of the vote has now been counted and the remaining ballots are mostly from pro-Begich areas, I hope this somewhat vindicates the “integrity” of Alaska voters.
              That it is even this close makes you wonder about a significant portion of the voters in the 49th state.

              Begich looks like he will come out on top in this race. But if he doesn't up his victorious margin above .5%, Sen. Stevens and his supporters could ask for a recount. So it could be awhile before this matter is fully put to rest, either way.
              This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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              • #22
                Re: Ted Stevens Found Guilty

                Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                I hope this somewhat vindicates the “integrity” of Alaska voters.
                Yes it does, 50.35% of them. But what does it say about 49.65% of them?
                Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Ted Stevens Found Guilty

                  Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                  But if he doesn't up his victorious margin above .5%, Sen. Stevens and his supporters could ask for a recount.
                  If they ask, Alaska law regarding recounts states:
                  A defeated candidate or ten voters may contest the election of any person on one or more of the following grounds:
                  1. malconduct, fraud, or corruption on the part of an election official sufficient to change the result of the election;
                  2. the person elected is not qualified; and
                  3. any corrupt practice as defined by law sufficient to change the results of the election.

                  As for how long it could take, the recount must be requested within ten days of the state's final review of the votes (anticipated to be the first week of December), then the recount date has to be set within five days of receiving the request, and it must be completed within ten more days. So we could be looking at this stretching into the new year.

                  An interesting side note - if the margin is 0.5% or less of the total ballots cast in that race, the state pays for the recount. Above that, and it costs the petitioners a deposit (which would be refunded if their candidate wins the recount).

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                  • #24
                    Re: Ted Stevens Found Guilty

                    Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                    An interesting side note - if the margin is 0.5% or less of the total ballots cast in that race, the state pays for the recount. Above that, and it costs the petitioners a deposit (which would be refunded if their candidate wins the recount).
                    And that is why the 0.5% margin is key. Below that, and Stevens and his supporters have nothing to lose in asking for a recount. Above it, and there's a $10,000 charge for a statewide recount. It would take someone awfully dedicated and loyal to Stevens to pony up that much money for a recount in which he lost by more than, say, a 1,000 votes. Even if that longshot comes through, Stevens will very likely be expelled from the Senate by his colleagues, anyway.
                    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Ted Stevens Found Guilty

                      Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                      there's a $10,000 charge for a statewide recount. It would take someone awfully dedicated and loyal to Stevens to pony up that much money for a recount in which he lost by more than, say, a 1,000 votes. Even if that longshot comes through, Stevens will very likely be expelled from the Senate by his colleagues, anyway.
                      As Martin Kady II of Politico reports, the likelihood of expulsion is now a question mark, since it appears likely that Mayor Begich will defeat Ted Stevens anyway. That will all unfold in the next 24 hours.

                      We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

                      — U.S. President Bill Clinton
                      USA TODAY, page 2A
                      11 March 1993

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Ted Stevens Found Guilty

                        http://www.stevens.senate.gov/public...vens.Biography

                        he's a UCLA alumni - well that explains it
                        stay forever young

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                        • #27
                          Re: Ted Stevens Found Guilty

                          Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                          As Martin Kady II of Politico reports, the likelihood of expulsion is now a question mark, since it appears likely that Mayor Begich will defeat Ted Stevens anyway.
                          Uhhhh, obviously there would be no need for the Senate to expell Stevens if his constituents voted him out. The "longshot" I was talking about was Stevens somehow being able to win the just completed election, whether now or in a recount.
                          This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Ted Stevens Found Guilty

                            Our local news just announced that the race is over - Sen. Stevens was defeated.

                            Here's the story: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/us...aska.html?_r=1
                            Last edited by Leo Lakio; November 18, 2008, 03:30 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Ted Stevens Found Guilty

                              Assuming no recount, Begich can indeed claim victory 2 weeks after election day.

                              Hard to say what the greater impact of this election result is. It does bring the Senate Democrats one seat closer to a filibuster-proof majority. But perhaps more importantly, it derails any possibility of Sarah Palin running for the Senate in a special election.

                              So,.... if Palin mounts a Presidential bid in 2012, it's likely going to be based on her performance as Alaska's governor. Although her approval rating up North is still relatively good, an economic downturn can change that very quickly. Recall former Massachusetts governor Michael Dukakis. He was riding high on a wave of economic prosperity when he received the 1988 Democratic nomination for President. But after losing to George H.W. Bush, Dukakis' star also took a dive soon afterwards in Massachusetts, as his state was hit hard by a recession. He declined to run for governor in 1990, and nobody talked about him being Presidential material after that. Palin could very easily suffer a similar fate if she doesn't win re-election for governor in 2010.
                              This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Ted Stevens Found Guilty

                                Frankie's - would you really like a filibuster proof Senate? If that becomes the case, in two years, I would bet that the House and Senate will swing back to the right. As a country, we have a funny habit of shifting power back and forth. In my opinion, the shift is a good thing - it keeps us from going to far to the right and too far to the left. Just two pennies worth.
                                Stephen

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