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  #26  
Old April 30th, 2008, 11:55 PM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

Separating people by race is a terrific idea.


Looks to me like those undercover cops kinda like the way people do things on the mainland. Note the earpiece with the clip. Most excellent.
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  #27  
Old May 1st, 2008, 12:48 AM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

Quote:
Originally Posted by anapuni808 View Post
Angela wouldn't have been allowed in otherwise - she works for the PR firm representing the Palace. The Exec. Director obviously had help writing his statement
Really? Interesting. That would explain the speed at which she disseminated the release!

Looked to me like they were letting anyone in that would allow them to spread their "message." So Hawaiian-ness is at best on par with publicity as far as this group is concerned. And boy, did the local media deliver.
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  #28  
Old May 1st, 2008, 01:36 AM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

"Fill in the blank with marking pen or crayon."

Really, is that instruction necessary?
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  #29  
Old May 1st, 2008, 01:48 AM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

i qualify this as a hate crime against citizens of hawaii and the united states. it is a violation of federal law and the constitution of the US to deny entry to any public or private building based on race......where are the police???
i predict that if the police dont act responsibly tomorrow that the federal govt will intervene and hawaii will be the laughing stock of the current news cycle.
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Last edited by escondido100; May 1st, 2008 at 01:56 AM. Reason: sp
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  #30  
Old May 1st, 2008, 02:22 AM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

You gotta wonder if Hawaii is on the FBI's radar for hate crime. Most likely not, because the notion of prejudice simply does not apply unless the victim is perceived as a minority race.

No doubt the "N" word, when used derogotorily (sp?) carries much more bad vibes than the "H" word used in the same manner.

But what is most fascinating to me is the ethno-centric sense of being superior, special, or somehow different from another race simply by virtue of who your parents were, or what blood flows in your veins. Do those types of people think that Lincoln and King were full of BS?

2 or 3 more generations from now, as the colors mingle, like paint on a palette of beautiful colors, racial separitism will start to dissipate. Until then, ignorance is king.

Besides, if you REALLY want to flex your muscle as a Kingdom, try taking over Pearl, during Fleet Week, so the bay is stacked with modern warships and subs, instead of a symbolic gesture at the Palace. Guaranteed if you pull that off, somebody gonna listen to you. And prolly respond.

PS - One thing is for certain. Stunts like today at the Palace don't help the overall cause very much.
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  #31  
Old May 1st, 2008, 02:59 AM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

Besides, if you REALLY want to flex your muscle as a Kingdom, try taking over Pearl, during Fleet Week, so the bay is stacked with modern warships and subs, instead of a symbolic gesture at the Palace. Guaranteed if you pull that off, somebody gonna listen to you. And prolly respond."

LOL! Your mind must be a fun place to vacation.
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  #32  
Old May 1st, 2008, 03:19 AM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

A mind is a terrible thing to wait.
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  #33  
Old May 1st, 2008, 03:39 AM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

I wonder if we're ever going to get past this issue.

Some feel the Hawaiian Kingdom was illegally overthrown and annexed by the US. They want it restored. They oppose the Akaka bill for not going far enough.

Most residents (I estimate) want to remain a state. I don't see where a compromise is possible.
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  #34  
Old May 1st, 2008, 03:44 AM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

Nope, this issue ain't goin away.

Many problems with the akaka bill. From what I have read of it and parts in it....the thing allows for even the tiniest amount of Hawaiian blood, so much so that if it were passed then the whole dang state should be tested to find out how many people are native hawaiian and don't even know it. Mom always said that we have so many races in us that we are "Heinz 57" so I think the DNA testing is a great idea, and the Akaka bill indeed stinks.

Who owns the palace? Does anyone alive today have the right to occupy it and keep others out? Was our police chief ineffective today for "being allowed" to enter the grounds? Should have even have had to ask? Never mind he's got some hawaiian blood....what rights did his uniform have, today?
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  #35  
Old May 1st, 2008, 03:54 AM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

Quote:
Originally Posted by pzarquon View Post
Really? Interesting. That would explain the speed at which she disseminated the release!

Looked to me like they were letting anyone in that would allow them to spread their "message." So Hawaiian-ness is at best on par with publicity as far as this group is concerned. And boy, did the local media deliver.
PZ - apparently she was doing all of this via Emails & was not there on site. I'm very familiar with the firm she works for and while I have issues with their methods, I have to say they are very efficient and pro-active in getting the message out as regards their clients.

I think if you watch the video of Mahealani's press conference, you might get a better idea of who they are and what they were attempting to do today. The group was performing an act of non-violent, civil disobedience and were perfectly willing to accept the consequences of their actions. Can the rest of us say the same? Would we be willing to stand up like this for what we believe is right?

I may be just a little more aware of what is going on with these issues than some of you on here. I was getting my information today from folks who were part of the protest, not just posting rumors or my own personal opinions. I've seen sarcasm on here, I've seen ignorance - I sincerely try to rise above and not attack folks for their own opinions. I can only write what I know are the facts. All of you are free to interpret my postings how you like.

Karen - the Friends of `Iolani Palace leases the BUILDINGS (Palace, Barracks and Kana`ina Building) from the state. They do not have control over the grounds which are managed by the state agency, DLNR. As the presumed "owners" of this parcel of land - I would have to think that DLNR is responsible for any property taxes. That is, if state agencies even get assessed for these taxes. I don't speak from any direct knowledge about the taxes - just an informed guess. As for HPD - they went to the Palace out of uniform. They don't really have any jurisdiction there since it is state land.

Last edited by anapuni808; May 1st, 2008 at 04:03 AM.
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  #36  
Old May 1st, 2008, 04:24 AM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrivener View Post
"Fill in the blank with marking pen or crayon."
Really, is that instruction necessary?
I just logged onto HT for the first time today and noticed that same thing in Mel's excellent (as usual) photos. Crayons?!
I figured someone else had noticed it and thought I'd better read through the thread before posting, and sure enough, Scriv caught it. I kinda figured it would be you first!
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  #37  
Old May 1st, 2008, 04:29 AM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

Quote:
Originally Posted by Creative-1 View Post
I wonder if we're ever going to get past this issue.

Some feel the Hawaiian Kingdom was illegally overthrown and annexed by the US. They want it restored. They oppose the Akaka bill for not going far enough.

Most residents (I estimate) want to remain a state. I don't see where a compromise is possible.
I really try to never get involved in these debates. It's fascinating to read different sides.

One question I always wonder: Understanding that some feel Hawaii and its Kingdom were overthrown illegally, and not being able to change those events, was there ever any guarantee that Hawaii would have remained a sovereign nation had the events in 1898~ not taken place what with 2 World Wars, Korean War, Vietnam War, or being viewed potentially as a possession in the eyes of Russia, China, Japan, Germany, France, Australia or the UK?
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  #38  
Old May 1st, 2008, 04:40 AM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

One could only hope that those nations would have honored their treaties - unlike the US, which did not.

One of the questions commonly asked is about Japan: would they have invaded during WW II? Hawaii did have a treaty of non-agression with them & the Kingdom had very good relations with Japan. Would they have attacked if Hawaii had not been a part of the US? who knows? However, the cruelty aside, when they did occupy nations - they honored International Law and left the country's laws in effect. Would Hawaii have been better off if they were still an independent nation in 1941? at least, at the end of hostilities - Japan would have left!!

Last edited by anapuni808; May 1st, 2008 at 04:45 AM.
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  #39  
Old May 1st, 2008, 05:24 AM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

From one of the protestors today:

mahealani asing mentioned that chief of police boise correa was advised by others not to enter the gate into the palace grounds because 'they might hold you hostage'. and his response was 'that's ridiculous! these people aren't terrorists or violent. besides, she's my cousin.' i thought that was funny. so he came onto the grounds next to the archives and behind the queen's statue and sat with mahealani for 10 minutes or so. they talked. he leaned over and gave her a hug. then he stood up and hugged or shook hands with the members of mahealani's group. then he left. i asked mahea what the outcome of the meeting was. she said he told her that the police wouldn't arrest them. since this was considered a state park, the state (not the city) had jurisdiction so he would direct the police to leave. she mentioned, too, that state law enforcement would probably come and try to arrest them.
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  #40  
Old May 1st, 2008, 06:06 AM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

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Originally Posted by Lei Liko View Post
They block access to non-Hawaiians, but it's okay for them to use something that was manufactured by the Hillman Group in Cincinnati, OH. I doubt it was a Hawaiian who made that yellow sign.

Available at the Home Depot, Hardware department next to the mailboxes
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  #41  
Old May 1st, 2008, 06:38 AM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

Are homeless Hawaiians allowed in? They would be Elitist if all Hawaiians aren't allowed to enter.
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  #42  
Old May 1st, 2008, 06:52 AM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

Anapuni, good find, and thank you for the post previous to this last one of yours. It is cool to learn about it being under Federal jurisdiction.

I doubt they have a bit of authority to be saying who enters and who doesn't. They don't yet have "govt. within a govt." status but I like how they're being treated with respect.
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  #43  
Old May 1st, 2008, 06:54 AM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

By definition, the Hawaiian Sovereignty movement would like Hawaii to return to being a sovereign nation. I'm curious about what that means, specifically. It sounds like there are several separate groups. Is there a unified picture of the changes they would like to see or how they would like things to be?

By the way, great pics!
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  #44  
Old May 1st, 2008, 07:09 AM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

Quote:
Originally Posted by anapuni808 View Post

SNIPPED FOR SPACE.
One of the questions commonly asked is about Japan: would they have invaded during WW II? Hawaii did have a treaty of non-agression with them & the Kingdom had very good relations with Japan. Would they have attacked if Hawaii had not been a part of the US? who knows? However, the cruelty aside, when they did occupy nations - they honored International Law and left the country's laws in effect. Would Hawaii have been better off if they were still an independent nation in 1941? at least, at the end of hostilities - Japan would have left!!
That sounds very optimistic! Not sure if I believe Hawaii would have been left alone, very few island nations in the Pacific were left alone and independant(even tiny Wallis & Futuna was snapped up by France). I guess we will never really know what would have happened.

Would Hawaii have been better off if they were still....

In all my travels to the South Pacific islands plus Honiara, Vanuatu, NewCaledonie, Hawaii does have probably the most enviable lifestyle of any pacific island. Whether or not that is due to being associated with the US, is another story and whether or not one considers modern conveniences and opportunities as enviable is up for debate as well.

they honored International Law and left the country's laws in effect. Would Hawaii have been better off if they were still an independent nation in 1941? at least, at the end of hostilities - Japan would have left!!

Who knows if what we 've read in our lives of Japanese occupation was true or false. I am curious however, if you've read any accounts/stories on life in Guam during the Japanese occupation.. I was not there, so I cannot vouch for the authenticity, but fascinating reading as well.

Anyway, just voicing my own thoughts. I've dealt "somewhat" with similar family tribal/land/occupation issues throughout the years as my mother was born on the Ft Peck Indian reservation in Northeastern Montana. My grandfather was a chief (Chief Blue Bird) of the Assinaboine tribe and my grandmother was Sioux. I for one, thank my stars my father (from a white Irish family from California) did the right thing and married my mother and took her off the reservation before I was born and that I had the opportunities I have had in my life.
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  #45  
Old May 1st, 2008, 07:24 AM
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Cool Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karen View Post
Was our police chief ineffective today for "being allowed" to enter the grounds? Should have even have had to ask? Never mind he's got some hawaiian blood....what rights did his uniform have, today?
In case you weren’t paying attention Karen, Boisse wasn’t wearing his uniform today. He was wearing a suit. Common sense dictates this was a deliberate attempt to avoid antagonizing the protest group, however foolish they were for taking over the wrong building. If he wanted to shoot someone, he could have just called all the blue and whites to the scene and flashed some badge and some steel. Duh.
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  #46  
Old May 1st, 2008, 08:05 AM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

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Originally Posted by Jim75 View Post
By definition, the Hawaiian Sovereignty movement would like Hawaii to return to being a sovereign nation. I'm curious about what that means, specifically. It sounds like there are several separate groups. Is there a unified picture of the changes they would like to see or how they would like things to be?
Yes, there are various groups that have differing views on exactly what form Hawaiian Sovreignty should take and how it should be achieved.

Here is part of a statement from the Friends of Iolani Palace.

"While we respect the freedom of Hawaiian groups to hold an opinion on the overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom, we believe that blocking access to Iolani Palace is wrong and certainly detrimental to our mission to share the palace and its history with out residents, our keiki and our visitors," the statement read.

"As a matter of historical record, we wish to point out that the original seat of government of the Hawaiian Kingdom was NOT Iolani Palace. The Palace was the royal RESIDENCE. Government activities were carried out in the original Courthouse (now demolished), then later in Aliiolani Hale."


It should also be pointed out that whatever one's feelings may be on the Hawaiian Sovreignty issue in general or on the actions of this group in particular, the Friends of Iolani Palace has been the group that has meticulously restored and maintained the palace to the condition that exists today. Forty years ago, when the State Legislature moved out of the palace to the present Capitol building, the palace was left in bad shape. It was the Friends of I.P. that oversaw the repair work (especially the termite damage) and recovered many of the monarchy era furnishings. While I do respect the rights of this group to carry out a protest in order to convey their message to the public, it does seem to me that they were more than a bit presumptuous to take over a place that other people have worked long and hard to restore and preserve. Would the members of this group calling themselves "the Hawaiian Kingdom Government" care to articulate what they have personally done over the years to contribute to the restoration of Iolani Palace?

The group said they would return the next day at 8 in the morning. I wouldn't be surprised if DLNR takes measures (i.e. new locks on the gates and added security) to make sure that no group in the future can lock up the palace grounds again.
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Last edited by Frankie's Market; May 1st, 2008 at 08:13 AM.
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  #47  
Old May 1st, 2008, 08:59 AM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaukura View Post
Would Hawaii have been better off if they were still....

In all my travels to the South Pacific islands plus Honiara, Vanuatu, NewCaledonie, Hawaii does have probably the most enviable lifestyle of any pacific island. Whether or not that is due to being associated with the US, is another story and whether or not one considers modern conveniences and opportunities as enviable is up for debate as well.
Have you ever been to New Zealand? It seems Maori people have more privileges than those such as Hawaiians. They have guaranteed seats in the government, for one thing.

I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing, but I am genuinely interested in whether someone on this forum is more well versed than I am in these matters and hope they don't mind sharing.
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  #48  
Old May 1st, 2008, 12:33 PM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

hi this is sansei and my thought's on the part of where a member posted on the japanese if they would've not attacked hawaii and not have WW2 that wouldnt be true is if they didnt they would've still have had WW2 since since in my Opinion,my Ancestor's would've occupied Hawaii and teach everyone their language and be under their control and in my own humble belief's,the hawaiian Nation would'nt have survived due to this if Japan did or didnt have WW2 that would've been something only thing's did change after WW2 so I Thought to share my View's on this.

Well thank's for your time
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  #49  
Old May 1st, 2008, 09:54 PM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

the hawaiian kingdom government's website: http://www.hawaii-gov.net/

i am a kanaka maoli, but i am not a member of this group.
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  #50  
Old May 2nd, 2008, 01:51 AM
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Default Re: Iolani Palace Locked Up to Non-Hawaiians

That's the problem with the Hawaiian movement, no unity among the varying groups claiming the throne.

So am I wrong to believe that during the Hawaiian Monarchy, a Non-Hawaiian wasn't allowed at, on, or in Iolani Palace?
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