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  • Rating Songs in iTunes

    There’s a fair chance that this is going to interest nobody, but that’s fine. I need some space for trying to get my thoughts in order, so at least indulge me.

    iTunes has a five-star rating system that can be applied to individual songs. You can also rate albums, but if you don’t, iTunes takes an average of the ratings for each album’s individual songs and uses that.

    I haven’t spent much time rating songs for a couple of reasons (about which, more in a second), but there are some really good reasons to do it. For one, you can set up a smart playlist that will play songs with specific ratings; for example, you can create a smart playlist that includes all the four- or five-star songs from a specific year, something I’m am inclined to make use of. Or you can make a smart playlist that plays five-star songs in a certain genre, something else that can be useful if you’re in a certain mood.

    One reason I haven’t spent much time rating songs in eight years of using iTunes (I was something of a reluctant, slow adopter) is that for various reasons I won’t go into here, I pretty much wipe out my whole iTunes library every year and start again from scratch. This discourages me from going through the hassle, but again: some of the benefits of rating songs kind of make the hassle worth it to me, especially since I make an effort to listen to current music and then summarize my thoughts at the end of every year (or in the case of 2009, almost all the way through the following year…ugh). Even if I were to rate only new songs each year, it would enhance my appreciation of (and experience listening to) each year’s new music. It would also make my end-of-year summaries a lot easier because it's tough to remember, even looking at the list, every song that I listened to in any year.

    The other reason is really the purpose of this post: I can’t decide how I want to set up a rating system. It would be easy to use the usual 1 = “I hate it,” 3 = “It’s all right,” and 5 = “I love it” system, but there are some problems with this method. First, it’s not as useful to me as, say, the ten-point rating system I’ve developed for films. You can find fault with it if you want, but the important thing is that it works for me. I listen to so much music that a ten-star (or ten-point) system would be a lot more useful, especially since it would create separation at the higher end of the scale. Unlike films, which I tend to see a wide range of, quality-wise, I’m probably like everyone else in that the music I add to my collection is likely to skew HEAVILY in favor of music I like.

    There are often songs or albums that I find disappointing or downright awful, but because hard space is at a premium, I am unlikely to keep songs i dislike in my iTunes library. What’s the point of having five stars if you’re going to have very, very few songs in your library that have a one- or two-star rating? Yes, there are a few reasons I might hang onto bad songs (keeping whole albums together, for example, so I can listen to songs in order and in context), but that’s the exception and not the rule.

    That separation at the higher end would really be useful to me; “Roundabout” by Yes and “Radar Love” by Golden Earring are definitely both five-star songs in my book, but there’s no question in my mind that “Roundabout” is a ten-point song while “Radar Love” falls a bit shy of that. When I want to listen to ten-point songs, I don’t want nine-point songs to creep into my playlist.

    Since the rating system only has to work for me (it’s extremely unlikely anyone else would ever look at my ratings), I’m thinking of using one star to cover songs that range from bad to average, two stars to mean decent, three stars to good, four stars to mean VERY good, and five stars to mean great. Or something like that.

    Do you use the iTunes ratings? Am I overthinking this? I’m at least making sense when I say that one- and two-star ratings for bad songs doesn’t make sense, right?
    But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
    GrouchyTeacher.com

  • #2
    Re: Rating Songs in iTunes

    I've casually used ratings for some of my songs but not all. For me the play counts mean more than ratings because it is through them I know what song I am playing more than others. Of course this system is not perfect because newer music in my iTunes library gets played more than older music.

    However when I group my songs in decades, using the play counts, I can still figure out what I am enjoying/playing currently regardless of the year/decade the song came out.

    I found the ratings to actually get in my way, meaning another column of data to keep track of with most songs in my 16,400+ song library remaining unrated. I tend to give 4 to 5 stars to the songs I really like.. but even at that I don't play them as often as like a new song that I may even give only 2 stars to when compared to a classic rocker from The Beatles, Stones or Led Zeppelin. But because I have heard the classics more than the new ones currently, I tend to listen to the current songs on my lists which generally get more "airplay".

    As for Smart Playlists, I've more or less manually grouped my songs according to dates, genre, years/decades vs. using the smart playlist except for making a huge group of say only alt rock from 1990 to 1991 or all 1970s pop.
    Last edited by mel; October 12, 2010, 05:47 PM.
    I'm still here. Are you?

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    • #3
      Re: Rating Songs in iTunes

      Originally posted by scrivener View Post
      Do you use the iTunes ratings?
      No

      Am I overthinking this?
      I don't think so.

      I’m at least making sense when I say that one- and two-star ratings for bad songs doesn’t make sense, right?
      I have no idea at this point in time.

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      • #4
        Re: Rating Songs in iTunes

        How would you rate helen's post?

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        • #5
          Re: Rating Songs in iTunes

          Almost as useful as yours.

          Clearly, there's a level of geekiness, especially when it comes to music, that even HT doesn't approach. I've been on some of the music fora, but most of them are either too genre-specific or else participants are bozos. I should see if Paste has a forum.
          But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
          GrouchyTeacher.com

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          • #6
            Re: Rating Songs in iTunes

            It doesn't. But okay, whatever. I will persist if for no other reason than the possibility that someone might find this useful someday.

            Here's how I've decided to use the star-ratings, at least for now.

            *
            Anywhere from awful to just plain not good. On a ten-point scale, these would be songs that range from zero to three.

            **
            Not bad, but not memorable or noteworthy. On a ten-point scale, these would be songs that range from 4 to 6.

            ***
            Pretty good to good. Memorable or worth mentioning in conversation. On a ten-point scale, these would be songs in the 7-8 range. I will mark a song *** if I'm listening to an album through for the first time and want to go back to it later.

            ****
            Very good! Probably the best song on most albums; quite possibly the best any band could really hope to do. On a ten-point scale, these are songs that range from 8 to 9. It's got to make me say WOW. Not just wow. WOW.

            *****
            REALLY REALLY good. Probably a classic. We're talking top-hundred-of-all-time material, or for albums, a top-twenty-five of all time.

            ---

            I can see a few possible problems already, but I'm going to try this out and see if it needs tweaking. I especially like the *** rating, because I like the thought of listening to an album through all the way, and giving ** for not bad and *** for pretty good. A negative reaction will automatically get a *. Something that makes me click over to iTunes to see the title of the song and possibly start it over so I can hear it again will probably automatically get a *** until I've decided it's stood up to multiple listens, unless I actually say WOW, in which case it gets the ****.

            La la la la la.
            But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
            GrouchyTeacher.com

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            • #7
              Re: Rating Songs in iTunes

              I'm looking at it now and all it looks like I've done is shift the curve down one notch, so that average is ** instead of ***. This dissatisfies me.
              But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
              GrouchyTeacher.com

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              • #8
                Re: Rating Songs in iTunes

                When I had my music library on an external volume connected to my G4 Power Mac, I had a few hundred of the several 16,000+ songs of mine rated.

                After I moved the songs to a new drive and my MacBook Pro, all of the ratings went "poof"!

                Right now I have a very small handful of songs with ratings and I think these were put in from the songs I downloaded from KCRW by Fitz and the Tantrums (all three songs with *** stars) and the 2 songs from my friend Waiaka who had 4**** on the last 2 tracks he and another friend wrote and recorded on their own.

                Otherwise, the rest of the tracks are blank.

                I think I will stay with play counts and rate an occasional song or two with 5 or 4 stars like "Stairway to Heaven" or "Let It Be".
                I'm still here. Are you?

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                • #9
                  Re: Rating Songs in iTunes

                  Originally posted by scrivener View Post
                  Clearly, there's a level of geekiness, especially when it comes to music, that even HT doesn't approach.
                  Don't give up on us so quickly! I've actually wasted more braincell cycles than are probably healthy on similar questions.

                  I think a five-star system where three stars are the midpoint between bad and good are ideal for items that are presented to you or enjoyed (or not) at a point in time, like restaurants and movies. You check it out, if it's so-so, three stars, if it's great, five stars, and if it sucks, one star... or none.

                  But in a curated collection, you note that using one star or two stars for things you dislike is somewhat ridiculous, because why would you continue to own something you don't like? I'd like to think that if there was something I disliked on that kind of scale, I'd just delete it.

                  Of course, you might be a packrat or obsessive about completeness, in which case you'd buy albums or whole catalogs for artists, and it would make sense to have things in your library you're not nuts about but hold on to because you'd be even more annoyed by holes in your collection.

                  Even so, I'd advocate one star being the minimum of positive judgement, going up from there.

                  Note that I would not use zero stars as the minimum, because if you're a geek, you need a "null," or lack of data. Something you haven't reviewed. Zero stars for a movie might be a condemnation, but in this case, its just unevaluated.

                  And if there's something in your collection you don't like, leave 'em in null. Most likely, you will base playlists on things you like just a little or better, so a huge volume of items with zero stars shouldn't be a problem.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Rating Songs in iTunes

                    Thanks for the input. I actually REALLY like your one star being the minimum of positive judgment, but as you also mention, I simply CANNOT have bad songs and unranked songs both be represented by no stars. That would drive me batty, not to be able to tell at a quick glance whether a song was bad or simply not yet rated. Since I keep the current year's additions for my year-end reviews, I need to know what I hated and what I haven't given a good critical listen.

                    Still, your idea is the kind of creative shift I was thinking about, not just my moving of the curve one notch downward. Must contemplate. This might call for plugins.
                    But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
                    GrouchyTeacher.com

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                    • #11
                      Re: Rating Songs in iTunes

                      This probably begs the question how do we listen to our music on iTunes and our iPods? I use manually made playlists by genres, years, and for current music, songs in my "top 100" and "top 100 recurrents" and "catalogue tracks"... all based on weekly lists of 100 which I update every time I purchase or rip new music.

                      The top 20 gets published to my weekly chart (very subjective). They can be played as a single playlist or in an iPod, mixed with the shuffle songs option. I do most of my iPod/iTunes music listening as if I were programming my own radio station.

                      Rarely do I ever play one album through all the way in one sitting or listening session, though I have set ups for these as well.
                      Last edited by mel; October 16, 2010, 01:53 PM. Reason: fix typos
                      I'm still here. Are you?

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                      • #12
                        Re: Rating Songs in iTunes

                        Originally posted by scrivener View Post
                        I simply CANNOT have bad songs and unranked songs both be represented by no stars. That would drive me batty, not to be able to tell at a quick glance whether a song was bad or simply not yet rated.
                        Why not use another field besides 'Rating'? One that can be displayed in the basic library view, and also used as a switch in smart playlists?

                        For example, do you use "Grouping"? You could use that to mark your below-one-star library, and to indicate disliked songs. Then, use smart playlists to exclude anything with something (or a specific value) in the "Grouping" field, and you can get auto playlists of only stuff you like.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Rating Songs in iTunes

                          The only songs I don't rate with stars are of the Christmas genre. That makes it it's own category, I guess. I rate because I can! The feature is there so I use it. But gotta admit, I don't really pay attention to the ratings after the fact. I have a 4 star and 5 star playlist for the car. Every once in a great while I check the songs rated 3 and below but, for the most part, they're on my iPod because I either know the musician but am not a huge fan of the song or they're there for storage only because I have room for them and don't want to delete! I definitely don't use my iPod to even a quarter of it's potential...which is why I don't feel the need to continually update to newer models. Ditto for my Powerbook!

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                          • #14
                            Re: Rating Songs in iTunes

                            Originally posted by pzarquon View Post
                            Why not use another field besides 'Rating'? One that can be displayed in the basic library view, and also used as a switch in smart playlists?

                            For example, do you use "Grouping"? You could use that to mark your below-one-star library, and to indicate disliked songs. Then, use smart playlists to exclude anything with something (or a specific value) in the "Grouping" field, and you can get auto playlists of only stuff you like.
                            There's the sprout of an idea here. The problem is that for current music (that is, music released this calendar year), I keep everything because I like the idea of being able to sort the year's best and worst, plus I give everything a chance to grow on me. If I can make something like this work elegantly, I may be in. Meanwhile, I've found a few Apple scripts that let you add half-stars. That might be my best solution. Haven't installed them yet.

                            Originally posted by mel View Post
                            This probably begs the question how do we listen to our music on iTunes and our iPods?
                            It certainly does. I mentioned in the first post that I was slow to jump in the iTunes bandwagon. Part of that was my love for albums: the thrill of peeling the cellophane off the jewel case, the concept (already fading at that point, obviously) of the album side, the liner notes, the album art. I admit I was amazed at how iTunes in shuffle mode added a new dimension to my listening: it helped me rediscover old favorites and hear songs in new contexts. While I love all the new ways of listening to my songs, I have to say that my old habits have stuck with me for most of my listening. I almost ALWAYS listen to entire albums, and in their published order. I seldom purchase singles (which was true even when I was in high school) and when an artist I like comes out with a new song, I don't think, "Wow, U2 has a new song," I think, "I need to get that album."

                            I once inherited an old iPod from zztype (it has the touch wheel but only a Firewire port for transferring data and for charging) and he left his music on it. He had a playlist for every album on there, and no other playlists! So I know I'm not alone.

                            Originally posted by tutusue View Post
                            I definitely don't use my iPod to even a quarter of it's potential...which is why I don't feel the need to continually update to newer models. Ditto for my Powerbook!
                            If you're using smart playlists, I can say for almost certain that you're using more of its capability than most people I know. Give yourself more credit!
                            But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
                            GrouchyTeacher.com

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                            • #15
                              Re: Rating Songs in iTunes

                              Originally posted by scrivener View Post
                              [...]If you're using smart playlists, I can say for almost certain that you're using more of its capability than most people I know. Give yourself more credit!
                              Thanks for your faith in me, Scriv, but the 2 smart playlists I have were set up for me at the Apple Store! I have lots of playlists (my favorite iPod feature) but I still do the drag and drop routine! I'm probably as obsessive about my playlists as you are about your ratings but I still make playlists the old fashioned way!!!

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