Toyota

[joshuatree]

Re: Toyota

This is exactly what I was wondering. I don't know if the ignition can be turned off with the car in gear but my first reaction would be to try it. If that didn't work then pop the car into neutral and turn the ignition off.

I once had brakes go out while driving and used the emergency brake. It was one of those center console lever type that allowed me to pull up gently, release, pull up again, etc., etc. 'til the car stopped. Now I have a pedal style emergency brake that would make that scenario much more difficult.

In the latest Toyota mishap in San Diego, I heard the owner used his emergency brake and the back bumper of the patrol car in front of him.

ETA: This latest incident was just covered on NBC News. Evidently, the 911 operator asked the driver if he tried putting the car in neutral. He said he hadn't because he was afraid the car would flip.

The ignition, if we're referring to the traditional key, would be easy to turn off. However, couple of items that could be dangerous. With engine off, you may cause your steering to lock. Also, you lose power to all auxiliaries, including braking power. So if this guy was hauling at 90mph, that's not a good thing.

The newer push button ignition requires holding the button 3 seconds down to shut. That could be easily forgotten during panic driving. Also, if we really are looking at an electronic issue, what's to say that won't work?

You're also right about the E-brake. Much easier to gradually deploy them with the center hand brake. But most Toyotas now have the foot pedal E-brake. Dunno how much finesse you have with those. Slamming on E-brakes at 90mph may produce ugly, uncontrolled results.

The Prius driver in SD should have tried neutral. But the shifter on the Prius is a little like a joystick instead of the traditional shifters. If the issue is electronic, wonder if that may do anything? Even the brakes on the Prius is handled by electronics. Sure, there is the traditional disc/drums. But when one initially applies the brake pedal, the 2nd electric motor actually provides resistance to slow the car down and charge the batteries (regenerative braking). Only later in the braking process does the traditional brakes kick in.

[tutusue]

Re: Toyota

The ignition, if we're referring to the traditional key, would be easy to turn off. However, couple of items that could be dangerous. With engine off, you may cause your steering to lock. Also, you lose power to all auxiliaries, including braking power. [...]

Good points. I have an older car (1995). When the radiator blew the engine turned off automatically. I lost power steering and power brakes but I did not lose the ability to steer or to brake. It just took a lot more effort. That said, I was going 5 mph, not 90!!!

Maybe Toyota should conduct a test, at a high speed, with turning off the ignition and with shifting into neutral to see if those are viable options. Not sure those tests can be done with test dummies tho'! Toyota really needs to provide some panic options for drivers.

Amazing what a difference a year or 2 makes. Prius went from the golden child of cars during our economic woes and high gas prices to the ugly step-child no one wants to acknowledge!

[joshuatree]

Re: Toyota

Amazing what a difference a year or 2 makes. Prius went from the golden child of cars during our economic woes and high gas prices to the ugly step-child no one wants to acknowledge!

The biggest problem with Toyota right now isn't the actual problem. It's the veil of secrecy and reluctance to provide access to their black boxes that is discerning and undermining trust. For instance, they knew the 2010 Prius needed a software update to correct the braking issue. They proceeded with the ones rolling off the assembly line but haven't decided how or when to tell those that already bought the car until all this investigation brought it to light. So people wonder, what else do we not know?

One could argue that American brands are just as bad but they have been equally grilled by the public as well. The subtle difference is that the American brands are the "bad guys" and Toyota was one of the "good guys", a company that could build reliable and dependable cars. So this is a huge blow to that myth. It definitely has wiped the smug off many arrogant dealers. 0% financing for 5 years was something only expected from American brands, not Toyota.

[Kalalau]

Re: Toyota

One of big case to get national attention was of the highway patrol officer and three family members who perished a few months ago in San Diego when their Toyota ran out of control and crashed. Now another San Diego case is getting national press--a man's Prius got up to 94 mph, followed by a highway patrolman who could smell the car's brakes burning up. The officer shouted instructions over his PA system, the man was able to slow his car to about 55 mph and then, if the report I heard is right, the highway patrolman actually eased his car in front of the Prius and slowed, eventually bringing it to a stop. Incredible heroism! "Just doing my job", he said. The car owner was visibly shaken, he said he would never drive the car again. Can't blame him!

[matapule]

Re: Toyota

keep in mind that replacement parts can be very expensive..

A friends son in law works for Hewlett Packard. HP sells their computer printers at cost to the public. They make their money on the printer cartridges. Cartridges that sell for $15 to $20 have a cost of less than 50 cents!

The ignition, if we're referring to the traditional key, would be easy to turn off. ..........With engine off, you may cause your steering to lock. .

NEVER turn off your ignition!!!!!!! This causes your steering wheel lock to engage! I know from experience!

if the report I heard is right, the highway patrolman actually eased his car in front of the Prius and slowed, eventually bringing it to a stop.!

You heard the report correctly.

[surlygirly]

Re: Toyota

There have been times in the past when I could not brake. I realize this is not the situation, but, like tutusue, I have always wondered why none of the drivers put their cars in neutral. It's at least worth a try and sounds like it worked for the few who tried it. Once your car slows down, you can then safely engage the emergency brake. We were taught how to do this in my Driver's Ed course- What to do if the gas pedal got stuck or if the brakes failed. I guess they don't teach that anymore.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Toyota

The newer push button ignition requires holding the button 3 seconds down to shut. That could be easily forgotten during panic driving. Also, if we really are looking at an electronic issue, what's to say that won't work?

Yes. But another problem re: the push button starter are the confusing/conflicting information that Toyota has given to owners. As a blogger on IEEE Spectrum astutely points out:

For instance, the Lexus ES 350 driven by Officer Saylor has a push-button starter, which is activated by the combination of a wireless electronic fob carried by the driver and a button on the dashboard, the Times says. To turn the car off in an emergency situation once it is in motion, you have to hold the start button down for a full three seconds: repeated pushing of the button does not work. The user's manual tells a driver this, but as the LA Times points out, this information is given only after telling drivers: "Caution, Do not touch the 'power' switch while driving."

There have been times in the past when I could not brake. I realize this is not the situation, but, like tutusue, I have always wondered why none of the drivers put their cars in neutral. It's at least worth a try and sounds like it worked for the few who tried it. Once your car slows down, you can then safely engage the emergency brake. We were taught how to do this in my Driver's Ed course- What to do if the gas pedal got stuck or if the brakes failed. I guess they don't teach that anymore.

The same blog points out that in some cars, shifting to neutral to tame runaway acceleration is easier said than done. Don't assume that just because it is easy as pie on your car means that its the same for everyone else.

In addition, shifting a car into neutral to try to disengage the engine from the transmission isn't easy either in an emergency situation. The Times story says, "the (Lexus) ES 350 is equipped with an automatic transmission that can mimic manual shifting, and its shift lever on the console has a series of gates and detents that allow a driver to select any of at least four forward gears. The arrangement of those gear selections could make it difficult to shift from a forward gear directly into neutral in a panic situation, Toyota spokesman Lyons acknowledged."

It's easy for anyone here to second-guess and place the blame on "panicked" drivers. But the more one finds out about details re: these particular Toyota/Lexus models that have been recalled, the more it becomes apparent that the Japanese automaking giant has some serious electronics/ergonomics issues to deal with when it comes to providing for the safety of their customers.

[Kalalau]

Re: Toyota

I had a conversation earlier in the day with a person who thinks the second San Diego person I mentioned might have faked the incident as a way of getting money out of Toyota. Wow. I guess this situation does present people with the opportunity to cheat. I have already seen a couple of attorney TV ads drumming up clients injured by Toyotas.

[Palama Kid]

Re: Toyota

Since 1992, I've only had two vehicles: '92 Toyota pickup & '97 Toyota RAV4. Gave the truck to my daughter before buying my RAV4, which now has 159,000 miles on it. Have had no problems . . . other than the usual brakes, tires, etc. Oh, also a radiator & AC condenser after I caused a rear-ender.

Must admit, though, that I was contemplating getting a new RAV4, but not now.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Toyota

I had a conversation earlier in the day with a person who thinks the second San Diego person I mentioned might have faked the incident as a way of getting money out of Toyota. Wow. I guess this situation does present people with the opportunity to cheat. I have already seen a couple of attorney TV ads drumming up clients injured by Toyotas.

It is amazing that the accident rate for Toyotas have become more frequent since issues first came up.

[Kalalau]

Re: Toyota

My friend appears to have been right. Brake damage does not seem to be consistent with an actual runaway car. The outrage is that this person seems to have put the highway patrolman's life in danger, also those of other motorists.

[surlygirly]

Re: Toyota

The same blog points out that in some cars, shifting to neutral to tame runaway acceleration is easier said than done. Don't assume that just because it is easy as pie on your car means that its the same for everyone else.

Actually, I've done this on several different cars. It can be difficult to get the car into neutral- never said it was easy- but I think it would be worth if it could save your life. But again, this was something we practiced in Driver's Ed, and when you practice something, it's easier to do in emergency situations.

Have any of the recent accidents been on new (2008 or newer) cars? I thought Toyota fixed whatever problem they had.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Toyota

A defective Toyota, or a 93 year old man who's too old to be driving? You decide.

Car Smashes Into McDonald's Drive-Thru Sign

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Toyota

A defective Toyota, or a 93 year old man who's too old to be driving? You decide.

Car Smashes Into McDonald's Drive-Thru Sign

Seems to me he was just following directions: "drive through."

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Toyota

Aw, he was just there for take out ...the sign!