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Same-Sex Marriage 2013

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  • Same-Sex Marriage 2013

    Hawaii Considers Same-Sex Marriage
    Hawaii may be on track to become the 15th state to legalize same-sex marriage, with lawmakers starting a special session Monday to take up the issue. Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie called the session after state House and Senate members were unable to pass the same-sex marriage bill with the two-thirds support required. But lawmakers said the legislation has garnered overwhelming support in the Senate and enough in the House to pass, the Associated Press reports.
    19
    I support marriage equality.
    78.95%
    15
    I support marriage between one man and one woman.
    21.05%
    4

  • #2
    Re: Same-Sex Marriage 2013

    The bottom line is that if this will result in revenue > cost.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Same-Sex Marriage 2013

      Originally posted by Walkoff Balk View Post
      The bottom line is that if this will result in revenue > cost.
      Yeah, because frankly, the financial bottom line is what should be our driving factor in matters of human respect, dignity, fairness and equality, don'cha think?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Same-Sex Marriage 2013

        http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/b...l?id=230107811

        So, we need more visitors.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Same-Sex Marriage 2013

          http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/2...floor-for-vote

          Gay for pay. Not there's anything wrong with that.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Same-Sex Marriage 2013

            Anyone else watch some of the testimony on cable TV? It was an interesting presentation of how effective organizing those who have a strong opinion can be. As stated in the StarAdvertiser:
            "Religious leaders who had launched a "People's Filibuster" to prolong the hearing stood down on Tuesday, as only a few dozen people came to the state Capitol to testify compared to the hundreds who were on hand late Monday."
            Political Radar wrote on Nov.3:

            Garret Hashimoto of the Hawaii Christian Coalition on Friday captured the essence of the strategy by calling it a "people's filibuster." "Please advise your congregations that they should not get too comfortable with the big number that they have been given for their testimony. Once the House Committees run out of testifiers, the hearing WILL end. Our goal is a "People's Filibuster", but the filibuster ends when we run out of speakers."
            Part of his instructions included: "PLEASE make the final pitch! Anyone who submitted testimony and who received a number MUST SHOW UP ON MONDAY TO TESTIFY! If they cannot make it, please find someone to show up on that person's "behalf." So for example, if John Doe has a number but cannot testify because he's at work, he has Jane Smith show up on his behalf and read his testimony. Jane is NOT REPLACING John's testimony with her own but is reading his testimony to the group in order to waste time! If you organize people from your churches who can stay at the capitol all day and "read testimony" on behalf of others, that may be a start."
            They ended their article with:

            But the House has set a precedent that could be used by other interest groups that might find reasons to want to slow the legislative process to a crawl, particularly around important procedural deadlines during the regular session.
            As it turned out, part of that situation was addressed on Monday, when testifying on another's behalf was not allowed.

            The House's version on the bill is not yet online, so I cannot check the wording of their changes.
            Now run along and play, but don’t get into trouble.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Same-Sex Marriage 2013

              Just DO it!

              It's inevitable anyway, fair and equal.
              Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
              ~ ~
              Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
              Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
              Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Same-Sex Marriage 2013

                The House version is posted online SD1 HD1. Changes include that a religious officiant (priest, etc) does NOT have to perform the wedding. And that a religious organization or religious nonprofit organization does NOT have to provide services or grounds for the wedding.

                The StarAdvertiser advises that "The bill would also strip a section in the Senate's version that applied to parental rights. Some lawmakers were concerned about how Native Hawaiian ancestry might be recorded for the children of same-sex couples.". I could not find that topic in the Senate's version, so don't know the exact change, but I do recall there was concerned testimony about it from the public.
                Now run along and play, but don’t get into trouble.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Same-Sex Marriage 2013

                  I was in the Capitol rotunda last night. Opponents outnumbered supporters and made sure everyone knew it. I think the objective was to disrupt the proceedings in the chamber, where opponents were also using stalling tactics. It was a weird place to spend part of my birthday, but I hope eventually I will have been witness to a small part of history and progress.

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWpT5RtT2UY

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Same-Sex Marriage 2013

                    The rights of people who oppose gay marriage are 100 % protected by minding their own business. Its so simple. If you don't like gay marriage, don't have one. And under the heading do unto others as you would have them do unto you, how would these people feel if total strangers barged into their private relationships and tried to get the state to ban their relationships??

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Same-Sex Marriage 2013

                      Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
                      The rights of people who oppose gay marriage are 100 % protected by minding their own business. Its so simple. If you don't like gay marriage, don't have one.
                      Most of the "opposition" testimony that I saw (cable TV) focused on those testifiers talking about:

                      1) not wanting to be forced by law to participate in the process of gay marriage (requiring clergy/churches to marry a guy couple or to have to support it with the use of their facilities),
                      2) not wanting the schools to include teaching about homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle to their children,
                      3) the problem of the wording about the status of children so that it messed with the designation of being Hawaiian (which I could not find in the bills).
                      4) believing that the voting process to allow or not allow gay marriage should be done by "the people" and not done by the legislature.

                      Although many of those in opposition to the bill were obviously in opposition to homosexuality, and their testimony often reflected that belief, they focused their testimony on specific items in the bill that they objected to. Talking points had been circulated, and those were often used (it was well organized).
                      Now run along and play, but don’t get into trouble.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Same-Sex Marriage 2013

                        When we think about religious opposition it does need to be remembered that the Catholic church does have a long and unfortunate history of child molestation compounded by hiding it and not dealing with it including transferring offending priests to new, unaware parishes. They can't seriously be considered a valid judge of anybody else's morality. Let he who is without sin, etc. The Mormon church has some very unique views. God lives on an imaginary planet called Kolob. Jesus came to America after he was killed and taught the locals to build pyramids then moved to England where he married several English girls. Revelation states in the absolutely clearest terms that there is no additional holy work yet the book of Mormon proclaims it is an additional holy work. Come on! If people want to accept these or any other theologies thats their business but realistically, what right do they have to ram their views down other peoples throats? There was a great line in "Nuns On The Run" where the Catholic guy is trying to explain the holy trinity to the Jewish guy. The Jewish guy exclaims, "But it doesn't make any sense!" to which the Catholic guy responds, "Aah, but if it made any sense we wouldn't have to accept it on faith now, would we?" Church is the place for faith. The legislature, any legislature, isn't. We see in a nutshell why religion has been the source of so many wars, and why it is today. Enjoy it, folks, but in the name of God keep it to yourselves.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Same-Sex Marriage 2013

                          My coffee must have been unusually powerful this morning, so to continue...

                          as to teaching in school. Kids can be taught as the churches (which are tax exempt and shouldn't even be talking about how tax money should be spent) want, that gay kids are abnormal freaks. That will help ease gay kids into dissolute lives of drugs and alcohol and maybe suicide. It will help straight kids realize that its a good thing to beat up and maybe even kill freaks.

                          Or kids could be taught that some kids are gay and thats just the way it is. Then gay kids might feel that they have something to contribute to society, a reason to lead productive lives, and straight kids might learn that bullying is not a good thing to do. Funny how religion so often stands on the side of primitive intolerance. Slavery, for example, was held to be justified by Holy Scripture.

                          I think, but could be wrong, that in pre contact Hawai'i it was OK for people to be gay. There might have been defined roles but people were not ostracized or given electroshock "therapy" like the Mormons used to do to their gay brothers and sisters. And it would have been the wonderful missionaries who along with so much else they destroyed, destroyed that vision of tolerance, too. What was the worst thing the missionaries did? So many to chose from. Introducing intolerance against gays would have been far down the list from things like bringing in measles, but it would still be on the same list.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Same-Sex Marriage 2013

                            Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
                            I think, but could be wrong, that in pre contact Hawai'i it was OK for people to be gay.
                            In Tonga, fakafefine(s) ("like a woman") are an integrated part of Tongan society.....always have been. It was common to see gay men walking down the street holding hands. It was no big deal to the Tongans, but in truth, it did cause some immature tittering among us first Peace Corps volunteers until we got used to it. Since it is traditional for both men and women to wear ta'uvala(s) (sarongs), the clothing is pretty much unisex. In fact the king of Tonga has traditionally employed fakafefines in the Royal Palace. I presumed that this practice was much like the employ of eunuchs in Europe to keep the wealthy women safe. Afterall, the King of Tonga wouldn't want his gene pool diluted by the casual dalliance of one of his harem with one of his male employees!

                            Regarding the influence of exposure to the gay lifestyle in grammar school is detrimental, my psychologist daughter says WRONG. That conclusion presumes that being gay is a matter of choice and not of birth. She says that a "gay gene" has been identified and we all, both men and women, have it to one extent or another. We are born with it. She believes that TOLERANCE of all types should be taught in grammar school without getting too specific about any type of lifestyle. She thinks that specifics should be left to an age where young minds can more easily process very complicated information. Unfortunately, some adult minds are still not advanced sufficiently to process information about genetic composition of the human body.
                            Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                            People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

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                            • #15
                              Re: Same-Sex Marriage 2013

                              Discussion at the legislature today included if there should be an "opt out" option for parents (on behalf of their child) and teachers when it comes to the teaching of sex education in school (which would cover the topic of homosexuality).

                              Still being discussed was that many citizens feel the bill is being rushed, perhaps over the revenue it will supposedly bring in to Hawaii from increased tourism, and that all issues have not been clearly looked at so that the bill is fair and on solid ground (because it is being rushed through the process).
                              Now run along and play, but don’t get into trouble.

                              Comment

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