Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    In New Jersey and nearby areas:

    Many of the ferries are not car ferries. The Staten Island ferry, while equipped for vehicles, stopped carrying them a while ago, and fast ferries such as Seastreak (which one still, unfortunately, apparently needs a car to get to in NJ, because of a NJ Transit route cancellation between Red Bank and Atlantic Highlands), NY Waterway (accessible via transit), NY Water Taxi (ditto), etc., don't carry cars. There is a Cape May (NJ) - Lewes (Delaware) ferry that carries cars. Anyhow, the ferries in NYC traditionally looked like a two-story vessel with a lot of windows and a mouth for the cars and a chimney, and that look, while improved upon, still serves as a basis for ferries such as the Cape May-Lewes ferry, which is a car ferry. Non-car ferries are nicer looking, with windows in their sides and often sleeker appearances, such as NY Water Taxi.

    Comment


    • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

      Originally posted by 1stwahine View Post
      I like you!

      You have a great weekend and watch the Bows win today!

      Auntie Lynn
      Mahalo, and you too

      Comment


      • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

        Originally posted by Rickyrab View Post
        that being said, why a car ferry?
        Because like a good part of America, the people of Hawai'i are tied to their cars. On the Neighbor Islands, public transportation is still pretty scarce, so having a car to get from place to place on an island is almost mandatory. Unfortunately, because there is inadequate infrastructure to support the numbers of cars that are on the roads everyday, the congestion is horrible, which just makes the problem worse, so people start demanding better infrastructure and the government shrugs its shoulders and says it has no money to build infrastructure, etc. etc. etc.

        Miulang
        "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

        Comment


        • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

          lets see.... in spite of being politically incorrect....we have a choice....whales or people...... i choose people..... no one wants to see dead whales.....however the federal govt allows indians in washington to harvest several each year.... the japanese continue to harvest whales as well as iceland and perhaps a few other countries..... how about focusing our efforts on whales we know are getting killed and not on a theory that SF may hit a whale...... a trial period could address those concerns. i think that the 300 people outta work may choose people as well.
          the bigger the government the smaller the citizen.

          Comment


          • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

            oh yeah, and let's not forget the Seastreak, which is how NJ does fast ferries (at least for now, anyway). See, lots of windows, very little amount of "blank walls".

            Comment


            • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

              Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
              Well I think we're finally having that light bulb go off as we're looking into different transit forms like the rail or The Boat, etc. We've still got a ways to go. If anything, I wonder, why isn't Kauai or Maui heavily investing in public transportation. It makes perfect sense there because it will help retain the small footprint, no H1. And everybody claims there that they have this close family mentality instead of "big city" Oahu so you think PT would work even better there.
              Can't speak for Kaua'i, but Maui is finally getting on board with the notion of public transportation. In the last couple of years, the public bus routes have expanded so that it's much easier to get to places by bus (some routes are free and I think the most expensive fare is $1, so it's a bargain). The buses on Maui aren't the BIG buses like they have on Oahu, though; they're those 18 passenger maxivans. So while handy, they are a little limited: they don't allow you to bring luggage aboard or anything that you can't hold on your lap. It will be wonderful when the day comes that some real buses start running on Maui!

              Miulang
              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                Because like a good part of America, the people of Hawai'i are tied to their cars. On the Neighbor Islands, public transportation is still pretty scarce, so having a car to get from place to place on an island is almost mandatory. Unfortunately, because there is inadequate infrastructure to support the numbers of cars that are on the roads everyday, the congestion is horrible, which just makes the problem worse, so people start demanding better infrastructure and the government shrugs its shoulders and says it has no money to build infrastructure, etc. etc. etc.
                Yeah, government needs to be more responsible for promoting balanced transportation, even if the costs wind up being high. Investment in reducing congestion ought to be mandatory, and providing travel options also ought to be mandatory. That being said, I think the Hawaii Superferry could use a redesign (and maybe a slower speed).

                Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                Can't speak for Kaua'i, but Maui is finally getting on board with the notion of public transportation. In the last couple of years, the public bus routes have expanded so that it's much easier to get to places by bus. The buses on Maui aren't the BIG buses like they have on Oahu, though; they're those 18 passenger maxivans. So while handy, they are a little limited: they don't allow you to bring luggage aboard or anything that you can't hold on your lap. It will be wonderful when the day comes that some real buses start running on Maui!

                Miulang
                We're a bit spoiled in NJ, mostly because Jersey is between two large (and relatively old) cities on a land route and many parts of the state are within commuting distance (or at least a day trip) of both large cities. So we have a state railroad system (used to be private commuter rail, but then the companies had trouble making money, so the government took it over) and a state bus system (rail and bus are under the same state organization, NJ Transit, with a dumb logo but often decent service, especially on rail). There are also private motorcoach and bus companies (Coach USA, Academy, DeCamp, various minivan jitneys in the more urban parts). So it can be a bit hard to comprehend the lack of service in much of the rest of the country sometimes.

                Comment


                • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                  Originally posted by Rickyrab View Post
                  In New Jersey and nearby areas:

                  Many of the ferries are not car ferries. The Staten Island ferry, while equipped for vehicles, stopped carrying them a while ago, and fast ferries such as Seastreak (which one still, unfortunately, apparently needs a car to get to in NJ, because of a NJ Transit route cancellation between Red Bank and Atlantic Highlands), NY Waterway (accessible via transit), NY Water Taxi (ditto), etc., don't carry cars. There is a Cape May (NJ) - Lewes (Delaware) ferry that carries cars. Anyhow, the ferries in NYC traditionally looked like a two-story vessel with a lot of windows and a mouth for the cars and a chimney, and that look, while improved upon, still serves as a basis for ferries such as the Cape May-Lewes ferry, which is a car ferry. Non-car ferries are nicer looking, with windows in their sides and often sleeker appearances, such as NY Water Taxi.
                  Some differences with our situation. The two story car vessels with a mouth and chimney aren't ocean going, they go from one side of a harbor to another. We don't have that situation. And another reason why some of these ferries have stopped carrying cars, no demand, especially when you have tunnels that cross the harbor. Hong Kong used to have the same type of ferries you've described to carry cars. Ever since three cross harbor tunnels opened up, that method of transit has all but disappeared. Only people ferries continue to operate.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                    Originally posted by escondido100 View Post
                    lets see.... in spite of being politically incorrect....we have a choice....whales or people...... i choose people..... no one wants to see dead whales.....however the federal govt allows indians in washington to harvest several each year.... the japanese continue to harvest whales as well as iceland and perhaps a few other countries..... how about focusing our efforts on whales we know are getting killed and not on a theory that SF may hit a whale...... a trial period could address those concerns. i think that the 300 people outta work may choose people as well.
                    Not true about allowing Native Americans in Washington to hunt/kill whales. That particular "tribe" (the Makah) were last allowed to take a whale in 1999 (I think that was the year: Leo, do you remember?); just this last month, a bunch of Makah who had participated in that last hunt went out and killed a whale without permission. They were castigated by other clan members and the tribal council actually wants to punish them for breaking the law, even though by treaty they do have the right to hunt whales. So the Makah have not legally been hunting gray whales since 1999.

                    Miulang
                    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                    Comment


                    • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                      For the sake of clarity on this issue:
                      Originally posted by escondido100 View Post
                      however the federal govt allows indians in washington to harvest several each year
                      The Makah hunted one eastern North Pacific gray whale (not on the Endangered Species List) in 1999, but have since been prevented from exercising treaty hunting rights by litigation.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                        Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
                        Some differences with our situation. The two story car vessels with a mouth and chimney aren't ocean going, they go from one side of a harbor to another. We don't have that situation. And another reason why some of these ferries have stopped carrying cars, no demand, especially when you have tunnels that cross the harbor. Hong Kong used to have the same type of ferries you've described to carry cars. Ever since three cross harbor tunnels opened up, that method of transit has all but disappeared. Only people ferries continue to operate.
                        In the case of the Staten Island Ferry, the Verrazano Narrows Bridge carries cars (or there is virtually direct access to transit at both ends of the line), and terrorist incidents may have been among the reasons for the car ban. (The Staten Island Ferry is now a FOUR story vessel with a mouth and chimney...and Seattle's ferries which sail across an island-choked bay are of a similar design. There was also the slow Scotia Prince, which I once took across the Bay of Fundy, but that service apparently succumbed to a mold infestation (!), and it was replaced (sort of) with a Hawaii Superferry-type ferry.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                          Originally posted by Rickyrab
                          We're a bit spoiled in NJ, mostly because Jersey is between two large (and relatively old) cities on a land route and many parts of the state are within commuting distance (or at least a day trip) of both large cities. So we have a state railroad system (used to be private commuter rail, but then the companies had trouble making money, so the government took it over) and a state bus system (rail and bus are under the same state organization, NJ Transit, with a dumb logo but often decent service, especially on rail). There are also private motorcoach and bus companies (Coach USA, Academy, DeCamp, various minivan jitneys in the more urban parts). So it can be a bit hard to comprehend the lack of service in much of the rest of the country sometimes.
                          That's one thing I did like about living on the East Coast (I was in Boston for 10 years): that whole Eastern corridor has lots of public transportation available so it's convenient to use that instead of a car because you can get to places faster. The farther West you go, though, the less public transportation is available. I don't know of many cities west of Chicago that have extensive rail and bus systems.

                          Miulang
                          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                          Comment


                          • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                            I have an idea: Hawaii ought to sit down and try to do business with Norwegian Cruise Lines (the operator of two existing cruise ships that frequent Hawaiian waters) to "allow" partial cruises - since the ships are American flagged, built in American shipyards and have an American crew, the (federal) Jones Act theoretically shouldn't be a problem. (The prohibition against carriage of people between U.S. ports that the company has cited in the past actually applies only to FOREIGN-flagged vessels, a point that they have been known to leave out in an effort to weasel money from people.) That way, islanders would be better able to use those ships as transportation, and there would be no fast Superferry problem - and if there are some subsidies, the cruise line might be tempted into offering better service aboard its vessels. (Currently, judging from the few travelers' reports that I have seen online, getting off the ship at Kauai instead of Honolulu apparently nets the company a few-hundred bucks in fake "fines".)

                            Comment


                            • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                              Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                              The buses on Maui aren't the BIG buses like they have on Oahu, though; they're those 18 passenger maxivans. So while handy, they are a little limited: they don't allow you to bring luggage aboard or anything that you can't hold on your lap.

                              Miulang
                              You don't know what you're talking about.

                              Again.

                              The Maui Bus has large-capacity buses in service.

                              I've seen them.

                              With my own eyes.

                              On Maui.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                                Originally posted by dick View Post
                                You don't know what you're talking about.

                                Again.

                                The Maui Bus has large-capacity buses in service.

                                I've seen them.

                                With my own eyes.

                                On Maui.
                                You sure those weren't tour buses? The Wailuku run uses those 18 passenger maxivans; and the ones I see stopping in front of Maui Mall are vans, not like TheBus. Roberts operates the buses for the County and they also have the big buses for their regular tour groups.

                                Miulang
                                Last edited by Miulang; October 12, 2007, 11:46 AM.
                                "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X