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The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

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  • Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    no such weapons could be found.

    Luckily, that did not happen in Iraq, where WMD's were found on 3 separate occasions. Or perhaps those poor Kurds died from drinking too much Kool-Aid. Or even better than that, maybe Hussein fired EVERY SINGLE chemmy weapon he had on that one single day in that Kurd village. As I've said before, we know Hussein had chemmy's because we still have the receipts.

    You gotta stop reading the Times. On both coasts.

    But seriously, Greg, I ask you, and others on this board....

    Does Obama's endorsement of secretly invading other countries, without their permission, to capture terrorists, bother you at all?????????????

    second verse, same as the first.......

    glurg
    Last edited by timkona; September 28, 2008, 11:00 AM. Reason: Oh gosh,,,,I'm cracking up.
    FutureNewsNetwork.com
    Energy answers are already here.

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    • Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

      Originally posted by timkona View Post
      Does Obama's endorsement of secretly invading other countries, without their permission, to capture terrorists, bother you at all?????????????
      I'm not aware of such an endorsement. Could we have a reference?
      Greg

      Comment


      • Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

        Courtesy of Vanguard, from the Palin thread.

        http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09...y4483110.shtml
        FutureNewsNetwork.com
        Energy answers are already here.

        Comment


        • Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

          Originally posted by timkona View Post
          Courtesy of Vanguard, from the Palin thread.

          http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09...y4483110.shtml
          The closest relevant thing I can find in that article is this:
          “If the United States has al Qaeda, bin Laden, top-level lieutenants in our sights, and Pakistan is unable or unwilling to act, then we should take them out,” Obama added.
          But there is nothing in this sentence about secrecy, nothing about invasion (except in the minor sense of an individual cross-border action), and Obama did not say "terrorists", but something much less inclusive. If this is the basis of the Obama "endorsement" you referred to, I think you're being rather inventive.
          Greg

          Comment


          • Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

            Are the polls wrong???????

            The national polls show a fairly close race, but the candidates seem to me to be acting like O'Bama (the Irish guy) is way ahead.

            McCain seems to be acting out of desperation, looking for a "game changer."

            O'Bama seems cool, calm and collected. He resisted several debate opps to hammer Mac (on voting against veteran's benefits, saying the economy is fundamentally sound then airdropping in on DC to "rescue" the bail-out, etc.).

            It just seems inconsistent to me that they are behaving this way with polls showing a close race. They're acting like their own polls show a double-digit lead for O'Bama.

            If the race were close, they'd both be acting cautiously to either hold onto, or pick off 2-3% of the voters. They'd target a wavering group, hone in on a sharp message and be careful of mis-steps. There's plenty of time left. Let the other guy stumble.

            Plus, the 527 neo-con organizations are probably sitting on a mound of cash, waiting to launch a "Swift Boat Attack" on O'Bama at the last minute. Take him down a notch with an "October Surprise."

            Are the polls wrong? Do the candidates have information the national polls aren't showing?

            I'm trying to understand why their behavior seems out of step with what is being reported as a close contest.

            Comments?

            Comment


            • Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

              Here's something to add to the discussion...had to hunt the transcripts to find what I heard this morning:

              http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../28/le.01.html

              BLITZER: In recent days, both Senator Barack Obama, the Democratic presidential candidate, and Sarah Palin, the governor of Alaska, the vice presidential nominee on the Republican side -- they both made it clear that they support the Bush administration's stance, in effect, that, if there's actionable intelligence on your side of the border, the U.S. must take action against Al Qaida or the Taliban.

              Let me play for you what they both have said.

              (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

              SEN. BARACK OBAMA, D-ILL.: If we have a high-value Al Qaida target in our sights, then we need to make sure that, if the Pakistanis are unwilling or unable to go after them, that we do.

              (END VIDEO CLIP)

              (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

              GOV. SARAH H. PALIN, R-ALASKA: I believe that America has to exercise all options in order to stop the terrorists who are hell-bent on destroying America and our allies. We have got to have all options out there on the table.

              (END VIDEO CLIP)

              BLITZER: What do you want to say to these candidates?

              ZARDARI: Senator Obama answers that, if the Pakistani authorities are unwilling, but in this case, Pakistani authorities and the president of Pakistan is more than willing.

              BLITZER: Are you confident that you have control over all elements of the security forces, that you're all on the same page, as far as the United States and the war on terror is concerned?

              ZARDARI: Most definitely.

              BLITZER: Absolutely?

              ZARDARI: Absolutely.

              Comment


              • Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                Originally posted by Creative-1 View Post
                It just seems inconsistent to me that they are behaving this way with polls showing a close race.
                I think that the differences you observe have not so much to do with political calculation as they have to do with the characters and backgrounds of these two men. McCain is a military tactician, oriented toward action; Obama is a lawyer, oriented toward reflection and judgment.
                Greg

                Comment


                • Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                  Originally posted by Creative-1 View Post
                  Are the polls wrong???????

                  The national polls show a fairly close race, but the candidates seem to me to be acting like O'Bama (the Irish guy) is way ahead.

                  McCain seems to be acting out of desperation, looking for a "game changer."

                  O'Bama seems cool, calm and collected. He resisted several debate opps to hammer Mac (on voting against veteran's benefits, saying the economy is fundamentally sound then airdropping in on DC to "rescue" the bail-out, etc.).

                  It just seems inconsistent to me that they are behaving this way with polls showing a close race. They're acting like their own polls show a double-digit lead for O'Bama.

                  If the race were close, they'd both be acting cautiously to either hold onto, or pick off 2-3% of the voters. They'd target a wavering group, hone in on a sharp message and be careful of mis-steps. There's plenty of time left. Let the other guy stumble.

                  Plus, the 527 neo-con organizations are probably sitting on a mound of cash, waiting to launch a "Swift Boat Attack" on O'Bama at the last minute. Take him down a notch with an "October Surprise."

                  Are the polls wrong? Do the candidates have information the national polls aren't showing?

                  I'm trying to understand why their behavior seems out of step with what is being reported as a close contest.

                  Comments?
                  I think some assumptions are being made here.

                  The importance of national polling numbers - It's overrated, and successful presidential campaigns cannot be conducted based on these numbers. Remember, it's who comes out with the higher number of electoral votes that wins the White House, not the popular vote. So in terms of polling numbers, both campaigns are spending much more time examining and analyzing the numbers and demographics in the key battleground states, like Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, etc.

                  If you want to know what the two campaigns are basing their decisions on, you would have to look at a table like this, instead of daily tracking polls by Gallup or Rasmussen.

                  http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...evious_changes

                  Notice that ever since the day after the Wall Street meltdown started, the Real Clear Politics electoral map has been trending towards Obama. Even in Michigan, a state where Democrats have been hurt in with numerous scandals (including that of former Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick), most polls now have Michigan as leaning towards Obama.

                  If you want to know why McCain has been making these sorts of "high risk/high reward" decisions, look at the electoral map and see which states are in the toss-up category. Everyone talks about Ohio being a key swing state that the winning candidate needs, but how can McCain be worried about Ohio when traditionally red states like Indiana and North Carolina are also considered toss-up at this point? McCain's campaign spokespeople won't say it, but his strategists have to be distressed at electoral maps like this. To boost his numbers and inject energy into his campaign, McCain has relied on making "game-changing" manuevers. Some of them have worked (like picking Sarah Palin to be his running mate) and others have not (McCain suspending his campaign to supposedly deal with the economic crisis.)

                  In the meantime, Obama can take comfort by looking at polls that say Americans think this country are headed in the wrong direction and are clamouring for change. This was true in 1960 (Kennedy vs. Nixon) and 1992 (Clinton vs. Bush 41). The main reservation that voters had with the candidate that they thought would bring "change" was whether or not they could be trusted to be this nation's Commander-in-Chief. In the case of Kennedy and Clinton, both men did not distinguish themselves as being superior to their opponents when it came to matters of foreign policy and national security. But they didn't need to be. With voters hungry for change, all they had to do was to pass a minimum threshold where people felt comfortable with the new guy being Commander-in-Chief. If they can pass it, that's all that matters to these "change" voters.

                  Here's a poll that illustrates this point. CBS news asked undecided voters whether they thought a candidate was prepared to be president.

                  Pre Debate
                  % of "yes" for McCain - 79%
                  % of "yes" for Obama - 44%

                  Post Debate
                  % of "yes" for McCain - 78%
                  % of "yes" for Obama - 60%

                  Poll numbers like that show that as far as Obama's campaign is concerned, it was "mission accomplished" for their candidate in this first debate. Barring a series a gaffes from the GOP ticket, Obama may never surpass McCain in the overall % of who is better prepared to be president. But he doesn't have to.
                  This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                  Comment


                  • Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                    Palin and BO's response to the Pakistan issue are miles apart.
                    Barak would take advantage of us already being in the region to step over the border and finish the job, relatively painlessly/neat and clean, get it done and get out. Whereas Palin sounds like it's OK to do anything, any time, and any where we feel like it.
                    A surgeon compared to someone trigger happy with an armload of shotguns.
                    https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

                    Comment


                    • Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                      I hear ya Ron. But what I'm saying is that BOTH (SP&BO)would choose to step over the border. And McCain would do the same, but with a little more "cloak&dagger." The Idiot did not let that happen.

                      SpecOps had him in their sights. And if you don't believe that, then you probably don't really believe ALL of your conspiracy hype. There are no secrets left. Not even for Bin Laden. We can pretty much take fingerprints with satellites nowadays.

                      But the overall point of my whole dissertation is that Pakistan is not really helping. Obama, Palin, & McCain know that. All 3 would support or approve of some level of border breaching.

                      If I could see Obama promoting that Hawkish mentality, most especially from a surgical, SpecOps point of view, and where national borders create possible problems, that would certainly have an effect on my vote.

                      We've yet to cut the head off the snake.
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                      Energy answers are already here.

                      Comment


                      • Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                        Originally posted by timkona View Post
                        We've yet to cut the head off the snake.
                        Americans are obsessed with Bin Laden, irrationally so. Take him out, don't take him out, it is not going to make any difference in the long run. It is not a snake we are fighting, it is an octopus with Bin Laden as just one of the tentacles.

                        The biggest threat to our future is growing internal fascism, consumerism, and enviromental abuse within our borders. We are a nation that depends on foreign sources to keep our economy going (e.g. oil, cars, TVs). We have made ourselves vulnerable. The Persian Gulf would have no strategic importance to us if it weren't for the oil reserves. Our workforce has become too expensive to compete in the world market in terms of producing exportable consumer goods. We have elected officials (both Democrat and Republican) who refuse to make the hard choices to make our country strong. We don't have the will and resolve to invest our future in expensive technology that will make us energy independent as well as heal our environment.

                        All our politicians have said the American Lyfestye is non-negotiable and Americans agree wholeheartedly. I totally disagree! We must modify our lifestyle or perish as a society. Bin Laden is a symptom, not the cause.
                        Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                        People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                        Comment


                        • Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                          10-4, Tim!
                          https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

                          Comment


                          • Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                            Originally posted by matapule View Post
                            All our politicians have said the American Lyfestye is non-negotiable and Americans agree wholeheartedly. I totally disagree! We must modify our lifestyle or perish as a society.
                            DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!

                            A lifestyle ("Lyfestye"?) of lavish comfort and luxury is an addictive goal - yet a majority of Americans consider it a birthright. It comes at a very high cost - usually to the citizens of other nations, so we get to conveniently ignore the price. Until someone outside the borders gets so fed up, they bring it to our attention in an increasingly horrifying fashion.

                            Comment


                            • Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                              Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                              A lifestyle ("Lyfestye"?) .
                              Yep, the cat's out of the bag, now the whole world knows that matapule keyboards with his elbows!
                              Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                              People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                              Comment


                              • Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                                I got this e-mail about Obama today. It's pretty good.

                                Subject: 143 Days

                                You couldn't be a new lawyer with 143 days of experience and become a partner in
                                > my law firm.
                                >
                                > You couldn't get a job at McDonalds and become district manager after 143
                                > days of experience.
                                >
                                > You couldn't become chief of surgery after 143 days of experience of
                                > being a surgeon.
                                >
                                > You couldn't get a job as a teacher and be the superintendent after 143
                                > days of experience.
                                >
                                > You couldn't join the military and become a colonel after a 143 days of
                                > experience.
                                >
                                > You couldn't get a job as a reporter and become the nightly news anchor
                                > after 143 days of experience.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > BUT....
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > 'From the time Barack Obama was sworn in as a United State Senator, to the
                                > time he announced he was forming a Presidential exploratory committee, he
                                > logged 143 days of "experience" in the Senate. That's how many days the
                                > Senate was actually in session and working. After 143 days of work
                                > "experience," Obama believed he was ready to be Commander In Chief, Leader of
                                > the Free World .... 143 days.
                                >
                                > We all have to start somewhere. The senate is a good start, but after 143
                                > days, that's all it is - a start.
                                >
                                > AND, strangely, a large sector of the American public is okay with this and
                                > campaigning for him. We wo uldn't accept this in our own line of work, yet
                                > some are okay with this for the President of the United States of America ?
                                > Come on folks, we are not voting for the next American Idol!
                                >
                                > Please, please forward this before it's too late!!!!

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