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  #26  
Old September 27th, 2007, 03:40 PM
craig foo
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

joshuatree asks: " But why are people permitting the cruise ships to continue service while an EA/EIS is being done concurrently? ... Why aren't people jumping into the waters to block the ships from docking?Why aren't people deflating the wheels off tourist's Samsonites when they get off the boat? "

Visitors coming off of cruise ships almost without exception do not debark cruise ships to get on motorcycles, in cars and trucks and vans and campers to cruise the island where their ship is docked. Such visitors do not come and try to sell something legally or illegally. Such visitors do not go to public parks to clean-up, hang out (their clothes?), camp illegally. They do not cruise neighborhoods with empty pockets and drug habits to feed. They do not come trying to look for work and housing, driving down wages, driving up rents. Visitors and their possessions off the cruise ships do not even begin to compare with passengers and their possessions which the Superferry ensures will arrive to Oahu's neighbor islands by the thousands weekly, and may or may not return to Oahu.
  #27  
Old September 27th, 2007, 04:14 PM
joshuatree joshuatree is offline
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

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Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
I believe the cruise lines started service prior to HEPA. HSF starts service after HEPA was put on the books. I believe that is the difference. And if the cruise lines as a class of business started service after HEPA (I don't think that's the case, though), then the DOT was again guilty of ignoring its own rules (something they appear to have done selectively recently). Two wrongs don't make a right. Tourists (as in Mainlanders) probably also spend more money than locals who are visiting their relatives on the Neighbor Islands.
This is where I will ask what two wrongs? DOT has the power to exempt under the existing 343. It seems that protesters look the other way when certain exemptions make them happy and not others when they don't. I also find it ironic that protesters can accept "grandfathered" services even though they yell the loudest about aina above all else. If one can accept the concept of "grandfathered", one should accept HSF got a legal exemption. Be consistent.

And you mentioned tourists spending more money. So have we finally uncovered the real reason behind the ferry opposition? It's the $$$? Makes protesters no better than the "evil corporate businesses". So how much does HSF have to spend to buy off the protesters?


Quote:
Originally Posted by craig foo View Post
Visitors coming off of cruise ships almost without exception do not debark cruise ships to get on motorcycles, in cars and trucks and vans and campers to cruise the island where their ship is docked. Such visitors do not come and try to sell something legally or illegally. Such visitors do not go to public parks to clean-up, hang out (their clothes?), camp illegally. They do not cruise neighborhoods with empty pockets and drug habits to feed. They do not come trying to look for work and housing, driving down wages, driving up rents. Visitors and their possessions off the cruise ships do not even begin to compare with passengers and their possessions which the Superferry ensures will arrive to Oahu's neighbor islands by the thousands weekly, and may or may not return to Oahu.
Can you point to me where are the facts for your statements that visitors from the HSF come to try and sell something legally or illegally? Or that visitors go to public parks to clean up, hang out their clothes, camp illegally? Or that they cruise neighborhoods with empty pockets and drug habits to feed? Look for work? Seriously, Oahu has a much better job market for the state. Can you discuss this issue without fear mongering and unsubstantiated statements?
  #28  
Old September 27th, 2007, 04:35 PM
Miulang Miulang is offline
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

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Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
This is where I will ask what two wrongs? DOT has the power to exempt under the existing 343. It seems that protesters look the other way when certain exemptions make them happy and not others when they don't. I also find it ironic that protesters can accept "grandfathered" services even though they yell the loudest about aina above all else. If one can accept the concept of "grandfathered", one should accept HSF got a legal exemption. Be consistent.

And you mentioned tourists spending more money. So have we finally uncovered the real reason behind the ferry opposition? It's the $$$? Makes protesters no better than the "evil corporate businesses". So how much does HSF have to spend to buy off the protesters?
?
HSF would be a nice alternative, but not a critical necessity. There are still airplanes that fly interisland, but there are virtually no other methods for getting essential goods from Oahu to the Neighbor Islands that are cost effective. Get rid of the Jones Act, beef up each Neighbor Island harbor and then even that requirement would go away. Talk about uneven enforcement of the laws: why did the DOT conduct an EA for the purchase of the additional land from A&B that was needed to replace some of the land that HSF took away from YB but not one for the reason why the additional land needed to be bought in the first place?

HSF got the exemption because the State allows each department to have a list of exemptions to HEPA. You would think the OEQC should be the one to determine and enforce environmental rules, but they are subordinate to the DOT and other departments. Doesn't make sense to me. That's like having the fox guard the henhouse. Wouldn't it be in the best interests of a particular department to try to grant as many exemptions as possible if it furthered a particular agenda (in this case, could be political payoff or increasing revenue). Again, in my opinion, it's the fault of the State for this mess. If they really had the cojones, they would forego requiring repayment of the $40 million from HSF while an EA was being conducted. Then there would be no reason for extortion or threats of HSF leaving Hawai'i because if the Dept. of Finance and MARAD both allow extensions, I think the HSF management would be willing to stick it out until an EA was completed.

Say about $200/day? (just being facetious)
Quote:
Over the first seven months of the year, Wienert noted, visitor spending rose 0.2 percent over the same period last year. And she said average daily visitor spending for the first seven months of 2007 increased 2.8 percent to $178 per person.
BTW: Don't blame the people on the Neighbor Islands for wanting to have jobs and food on their table. Remember, Oahu is the commercial center; the Neighbor Islands have to rely pretty much on tourism for their bread and butter.

Miulang
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Last edited by Miulang; September 27th, 2007 at 04:54 PM.
  #29  
Old September 27th, 2007, 04:57 PM
joshuatree joshuatree is offline
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

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Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
HSF would be a nice alternative, but not a critical necessity. There are still airplanes that fly interisland, but there are virtually no other methods for getting essential goods from Oahu to the Neighbor Islands that are cost effective. Get rid of the Jones Act, beef up each Neighbor Island harbor and then even that requirement would go away. Talk about uneven enforcement of the laws: why did the DOT conduct an EA for the purchase of the additional land from A&B that was needed to replace some of the land that HSF took away from YB but not one for the reason why the additional land needed to be bought in the first place?
Because the land purchased needed some redevelopment (construction or maybe razing) to make it suitable for YB operations? As for HSF, what mods were done to Pier 2? Maybe I'm mistaken but I thought they simply bought a barge from China, towed it up to Pier 2, and viola, facilities for HSF?

I'm all for getting rid of the Jones Act but I have to wonder how much beefing up of neighbor island harbors will happen? Figure everyone's so about the aina these days.


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Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
BTW: Don't blame the people on the Neighbor Islands for wanting to have jobs and food on their table. Remember, Oahu is the commercial center; the Neighbor Islands have to rely pretty much on tourism for their bread and butter.
And it's never occurred to folks that by preventing any other types of industry to develop, neighbor islanders are literally transforming themselves into future Oahu's because they are solely relying on tourism, much like Oahu? Again, it's never occurred that maybe niche agriculture can be enhanced by a ferry and the market will be Oahu? That's why I asked earlier what opposition will there be if HSF simply became nothing but a super fast barge, hauling cargo?
  #30  
Old September 27th, 2007, 05:01 PM
Miulang Miulang is offline
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

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Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
And it's never occurred to folks that by preventing any other types of industry to develop, neighbor islanders are literally transforming themselves into future Oahu's because they are solely relying on tourism, much like Oahu? Again, it's never occurred that maybe niche agriculture can be enhanced by a ferry and the market will be Oahu? That's why I asked earlier what opposition will there be if HSF simply became nothing but a super fast barge, hauling cargo?
Well, it will probably have to be an average-speed cargo transport, if Greg Kaufman from PWF and NOAA have anything to say about it . It would make the owners more money more quickly if all it did was transport cargo, though, if you look at the current tariffs for commercial trucks. If they took over the LCL business that YB wants to get rid of, it would be a win-win for everybody. And I'm sure MLP and Grove Farm (2 of the local investors in HSF) wouldn't mind, either, as it would give them another alternative to getting their own goods transported.

BTW: the additional land that the State bought for YB to use was just a parking lot. So I think there was very little redevelopment cost associated with the purchase. And there's a little bit more to the ferry terminal at Kahului besides the barge. There are some tents, some additional road work to close off Ala Luina and more security fencing.

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Last edited by Miulang; September 27th, 2007 at 05:20 PM.
  #31  
Old September 27th, 2007, 08:36 PM
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

That new cruise by Princess to Hawai'i on the Diamond Princess won't cause too much additional traffic because each island stopover appears to be only a day trip, as opposed to NCL, where the ships have 2-day ports of call. And it looks like it's geared to richer folk than NCL's average passenger.

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  #32  
Old September 28th, 2007, 02:36 AM
craig foo
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Thumbs down Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

-------
joshuatree says: " And it's never occurred to folks that by preventing any other types of industry to develop, neighbor islanders are literally transforming themselves into future Oahu's because they are solely relying on tourism, much like Oahu? "

So when it's convenient to espouse such, all of a sudden tourism dollar$ are ethically tainted you're inferring?
++++
joshuatree says: "Again, it's never occurred that maybe niche agriculture can be enhanced by a ferry and the market will be Oahu? That's why I asked earlier what opposition will there be if HSF simply became nothing but a super fast barge, hauling cargo?"

That's absurd. The Superferry reportedly sucking in 17,000 gallons of seawater per second is to be promoted for its value to serve a niche vegetable farmer on Kauai? It doesn't make more sense to ship farm products interisland via the marine equivalent of Fed -Ex than it makes to ship and unload produce interisland in one or two days within our existing produce distribution sytem?

From a person who requests numbers/specifics from others who are opposed to Superferry as if he/she him/herself has such specifics as: (1) What is the primary legal agricultural product of Kauai? (2) How is that agricultural product shipped off of Kauai? (3) What's the expected future of agriculture on Kauai when of all 4000 or so students of the public high schools on Kauai the educational system can field no more than 170 students, 150 who show up regularly, for high school agricultural science courses? (4) If the prospect of agriculture is so bright for the next generation of farming on Kauai why is it that a fair half of the ag sci classes are composed of students who failed one of their their core science courses and just want to enjoy, for the minimal effort , the guarantee of not being left behind, even though they should have been for both their and society's sake?

Last edited by craig foo; September 28th, 2007 at 03:11 AM. Reason: font
  #33  
Old September 28th, 2007, 02:54 AM
joshuatree joshuatree is offline
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

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Originally Posted by craig foo View Post
So when it is convenient to espouse such, all of a sudden tourism dollar$ are ethically tainted you are inferring?
Only when people keep harping that they don't want any more development and they can't handle any more development yet they still welcome more and more tourism dollars. They say they don't want to be another Oahu but Oahu became the way it is because it kept on taking in the tourism dollars. Take a look at Waikiki, it's a far cry from what it was even a decade ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig foo View Post
That's absurd. The Superferry reportedly sucking in 17,000 gallons of seawater per second is to be promoted for its value to serve a niche vegetable farmer on Kauai? It doesn't make more sense to ship farm products interisland via the marine equivalent of Fed -Ex than it makes to ship and unload produce interisland in one or two days within our existing produce distribution sytem.

From a person who requests numbers/specifics from others who are opposed to Superferry as if he/she him/herself has such specifics as: (1) What is the primary legal agricultural product of Kauai? (2) How is that agricultural product shipped off of Kauai? (3) What is the future of agriculture on Kauai when all of the public high schools on Kauai can field no more than 170 students, 150 who show up regularily, for high school agricultural science courses? (4) If the prospect of agricultire is so bright for the next generation of farming on Kauai why is it that a fair half of the ag sci classes are composed of students who failed one of their their core science courses and just want to enjoy, for the minimal effort , the guarantee of not being left behind, even though they should have been?
What does the water intake rate of the ferry's propulsion have to do with its promotion to carry the goods of farmers? And why is it absurd? FedEx was mocked as absurd. Who needs overnight delivery? Yet, the world can't get by today without FedEx. It's become part of our vocabulary. Does it only have to pertain to vegetables? What about dairy products with shorter shelf life? Maybe the money spent on refrigeration while on the barge is made up for with speed on the ferry?

Also, my statement wasn't directed just at Kauai. You want numbers from me? I'm still waiting for your numbers on the big Oahu scare you painted.
  #34  
Old September 28th, 2007, 03:08 AM
Fritz Fritz is offline
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

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Originally Posted by 1stwahine View Post
Wat? DRUGS are a PROBLEM!!! PERIOD. No and's, if's, or BUTTS about IT!

Auntie Lynn
With all due respect:
Drugs are NOT the problem. PEOPLE are the problem. Drugs don't do themselves. There is no "disease"; it is nothing more than willful misconduct.
But this is the Superferry thread

Drugs is another thread.
  #35  
Old September 28th, 2007, 03:50 AM
craig foo
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

more of joshuatree says: "Oahu became the way it is because it kept on taking in the tourism dollars. "

Am I to be lead to believe by you that developers' dollars didn't preceed tourists' dollars? As poorly empowered as Kauai Planning Department, Kauai County Council, Kauai Planning Commission are they do listen their constituency...you know why? They either live next door or right down the road from one of us. Obviously you cannot appreciate a community that a speaker from the audience at the meeting last Thursday mentioned as being such that virtually resident on Kauai is three or less persons removed from one another.
++++
more of joshuatree asks: " Who needs overnight delivery?"

Or, from Kauai, who needs four hour transit to Oahu for their goods and produce. What particular agricultural niche(s) were you suggesting made up the agricultural production enterprises on Kauai that would be better served by Superferry than by existing transit technology?
+++++
more joshing: " Maybe the money spent on refrigeration while on the barge is made up for with speed on the ferry?"

Maybe if we sent ice cream across the Atlantic on a stealth bomber it would not need to be kept in a freezer for the trip from New York to London?
++++
and yet more: " I'm still waiting for your numbers on the big Oahu scare you painted."

Aren't we all. Environmental Asessment would be the logical first step, and, not just coincidentally that is what the protesters want also. So what's the problem? Superferry cannot afford being respectful to Kauai's inhabitants? If so, then for sure Superferry could not afford much more than the most basic operating expenses. All the money that Superferry does not need to dish out to cover EA/EIS -related expenses stays in whose pockets?

It's not so much the matter of the existence a waterborne ferry service for human transport connecting Kauai and Oahu, it's a matter of the nature of the Superferry itself, regardless the multitude of spins put on the issue by Supperferry supporters.

Last edited by craig foo; September 28th, 2007 at 04:22 AM. Reason: font, add quote, spelling
  #36  
Old September 28th, 2007, 05:27 AM
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

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Originally Posted by Mike_Lowery View Post
You ever drove on the semi-paved, pothole-ridden road at the Nawiliwili jetty?
No. Any your point?

Have you ever driven on sand? You flatten your tires to gain traction.

Again, flattening tires does not immobilize a vehicle. At best it makes it hard to control at road speeds. There's still plenty of traction (if not more traction) to run over some protesters. What's more the guy doing the flattening was putting him self in danger as the vehicle could start moving at any time.

So he puts himself in danger, doesn't lessen the danger to others and endangers the occupants when they do get to the roadways.

No, he's not an idiot. He's a frickin' idiot.


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Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
P.S. As far as people protesting against the cruise lines the way Kauaians are, remember the people of Moloka'i.
Oh, yes. Now there's an island that's economically self-sufficient island</sarcasm>. And since they are part of Maui county, they have an even smaller voting influence in their government. I think their day will come.



Now, question for everyone. Who tends to travel more inter-island? Oahu folks or neighbor island folks?

Excluding those who travel on business, and Oahu folks going to see family, I don't think Oahu people travel to the outer islands that much. I think the last time I went that wasn't business, was like over 10 years ago. When I vacation, I go mainland. And I think most my friends are the same. IF they go outer island, it's rarely.

On the other hand, it seemed like a lot of the neighbor island folks I met did make personal trips to Oahu. Usually to go shopping. That was back before a lot of the big box stores opened up, so that may have changed.

What are your impressions? And do you think that pattern will carry over to the HSF?
  #37  
Old September 28th, 2007, 11:59 AM
joshuatree joshuatree is offline
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

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Originally Posted by craig foo View Post
Am I to be lead to believe by you that developers' dollars didn't preceed tourists' dollars? As poorly empowered as Kauai Planning Department, Kauai County Council, Kauai Planning Commission are they do listen their constituency...you know why? They either live next door or right down the road from one of us. Obviously you cannot appreciate a community that a speaker from the audience at the meeting last Thursday mentioned as being such that virtually resident on Kauai is three or less persons removed from one another.
Why would developers throw money in if they don't see a return on investment? Otherwise, there's plenty of desolate land out in the US Southwest to build. What is the main economic engine in this state that spurs developers to build giant LV, Ferregamo, Coach, etc stores? Tourism dollars.

You speak of Kauai's authority as if they are doing all the right things. If so, why is their speak of infrastructure problems? Why did the local Kauai court deny a TRO against the HSF?


Quote:
Originally Posted by craig foo View Post
more of joshuatree asks: " Who needs overnight delivery?"

Or, from Kauai, who needs four hour transit to Oahu for their goods and produce. What particular agricultural niche(s) were you suggesting made up the agricultural production enterprises on Kauai that would be better served by Superferry than by existing transit technology?
Again, you need to pull out of your tunnel vision. My original statement was addressed to inter-island shipping, Kauai included, but not just Kauai alone. I heard chickens run rampant on Kauai, perhaps that can be an export. Fresh island chicken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig foo View Post
more joshing: " Maybe the money spent on refrigeration while on the barge is made up for with speed on the ferry?"

Maybe if we sent ice cream across the Atlantic on a stealth bomber it would not need to be kept in a freezer for the trip from New York to London?
++++
and yet more: " I'm still waiting for your numbers on the big Oahu scare you painted."

Aren't we all. Environmental Asessment would be the logical first step, and, not just coincidentally that is what the protesters want also. So what's the problem? Superferry cannot afford being respectful to Kauai's inhabitants? If so, then for sure Superferry could not afford much more than the most basic operating expenses. All the money that Superferry does not need to dish out to cover EA/EIS -related expenses stays in whose pockets?

It's not so much the matter of the existence a waterborne ferry service for human transport connecting Kauai and Oahu, it's a matter of the nature of the Superferry itself, regardless the multitude of spins put on the issue by Supperferry supporters.
So now you need to resort to name calling eh? You should quit fooing around and address your post #807, where are the facts to back up your fear mongering statements? Quit avoiding questions that are directed to you. Otherwise, you lack any creditability but then again, I've seen many others on this forum already discounting you.
  #38  
Old September 28th, 2007, 12:57 PM
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeckoGeek View Post

Now, question for everyone. Who tends to travel more inter-island? Oahu folks or neighbor island folks?

On the other hand, it seemed like a lot of the neighbor island folks I met did make personal trips to Oahu. Usually to go shopping. That was back before a lot of the big box stores opened up, so that may have changed.

What are your impressions? And do you think that pattern will carry over to the HSF?
For me, I travel to the Big Island, Maui and Kauai for work, a few of us from the company more than others. The friends, colleagues, acquaintances, etc. I've met and personally know will travel to Oahu on their vacations for purposes of back to school shopping, more things to do, etc. than the reverse. Everyone I know, including myself will travel to the other islands for the purpose of visiting family which may or may not include staying with family, renting a vehicle, camping (with permits obtained prior to arriving), graduation/birthday/retirement/etc. parties...the list of traveling goes on.

We travel annually to Maui for the New Year's holiday, otherwise our only purpose for "vacationing" on the other islands, is to introduce our children to the experiences.
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  #39  
Old September 28th, 2007, 03:15 PM
Miulang Miulang is offline
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

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Oh, yes. Now there's an island that's economically self-sufficient island</sarcasm>. And since they are part of Maui county, they have an even smaller voting influence in their government.
I don't understand how you can say that the people of Moloka'i have so little influence on the County Council. If the Council had really wanted to push it, I'm sure they could have forced Moloka'i to accept NCL cruises, too. But they didn't. The people from the island of Maui and Lanai respect the wishes of the people of Moloka'i. The residents of Moloka'i may seem poor and backward to outsiders, but let me tell you, they are fiercely proud of who they are, and money is not the same all mighty god to them as it is to most other residents of the State. They try to treat their neighbors with respect (provided the same is offered to them) and will share whatever they have. They try to live off the land and the ocean whenever they can. I call that being self-sufficient in the purest sense of the term.

One recent example of this is the resignation of one of the employees of Moloka'i Ranch, who had been working there for years. Why did he resign? He was asked by his employers to go be around his neighbors and convince them that the development at La'au Pt. was necessary for the island to bring more jobs. He quit because his conscience would not allow him to betray his people. He said that it was sad that he had to leave his coworkers, but he felt good about his decision and even if he might not be able to find another job on Moloka'i, it was worth it to him.

Again, please don't judge the people of Moloka'i on the basis of your standards. They live on an island with an ecosystem that is even more fragile than most other islands. And they want to protect what they have for as long as they can.

BTW: If you have around $4 million, you can buy the McAfee estate that's now up for sale in western Moloka'i.

Miulang
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Last edited by Miulang; September 28th, 2007 at 03:22 PM.
  #40  
Old September 28th, 2007, 04:00 PM
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

What ever "creditability" is to you joshuatree, I assure you I can manage just fine without yours.
  #41  
Old September 28th, 2007, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

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Originally Posted by craig foo View Post
What ever "creditability" is to you joshuatree, I assure you I can manage just fine without yours.
Craig let me pose this question to you, do want Hawaii to remain backwater state that is not progressively moving forward ?It seems there is a lot of
people in this state (including you) which espouse the politics of No.

Politics of no is a infectious disease, which there is a vocal minority that practically stop every project in this state. I could mention a laundry list of
projects that meet this criteria. It is deeply frustrating for me as it makes Hawaii look like a place which is horrible place to do business and full of country hicks.

In short, Hawaii will remain a backwater state until people get with the game plan here.
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  #42  
Old September 28th, 2007, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

The problem is not that Hawaii is a back water state, the problem is that each of the island in this state have different ways of doing things. A solution to a problem may work on one island with no problem, while that same solution applied to another island will cause more problems. Also some people are afraid of being the guinea pig for new stuff.

That being the case what the SuperFerry should have done was to demostrate a limited run like a couple of weeks between two willing places of it's services.
  #43  
Old September 28th, 2007, 06:32 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

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The problem is not that Hawaii is a back water state, the problem is that each of the island in this state have different ways of doing things.
I disagree, it seems there is a loud vocal minority on each island whom try to stall practically every new project. It also seems this loud vocal minority is
taking advantage of the majority through the courts or protesting.The even worse thing is that vocal minority is pushing their agenda on the majority.
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  #44  
Old September 28th, 2007, 06:33 PM
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

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Originally Posted by craig foo View Post
--such specifics as: (1) What is the primary legal agricultural product of Kauai?
Are you implying that one of Kauai's agricultural products is an illegal substance? So your concern about Oahu residents coming and selling drugs is because they are going to compete with Kauai producers? Never mind. How about I just answer the question. The primary "legal" agriculture products of Kauai are coffee and flowers. Bananas, papayas, green vegetables, etc. are also part of what is produced on Kauai. There is also honey, taro, pork and numerous other items. Could there be more? Absolutely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig foo View Post
(2) How is that agricultural product shipped off of Kauai?
Right now they have to depend upon either the YB stranglehold or very expensive air freight. The HSF would allow an farmer/producer to take a vehicle they already own, drive onto the ferry and make the trip to deliver goods to Oahu (where it has been proven that people will pay a premium for quality, locally grown/produced products) for a cost significantly less than must be paid to YB and in a more timely fashion. The farmer/ag producer can then drive back on the HSF and go home. Faster, less expensive, more direct and with excellent potential that said farmer/producer will put the profits back into expanding their operation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig foo View Post
(3) What's the expected future of agriculture on Kauai when of all 4000 or so students of the public high schools on Kauai the educational system can field no more than 170 students, 150 who show up regularly, for high school agricultural science courses?
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig foo View Post
(4) If the prospect of agriculture is so bright for the next generation of farming on Kauai why is it that a fair half of the ag sci classes are composed of students who failed one of their their core science courses and just want to enjoy, for the minimal effort, the guarantee of not being left behind, even though they should have been for both their and society's sake!
I will respond to these questions as one as you are making essentially the same point which is that the future of agriculture on Kauai is dismal because present high school students are generally uninterested or incompetent. (While I personally applaud your philosophy of leaving behind those who don't put forth the effort to do their best, this is not a particularly helpful approach.) Nonetheless, as a society do we give up on brightening the future of agriculture simply because it doesn't appear to be appealing or do we make an effort to demonstrate and teach the value of such? How many energized and committed students would it take to help agriculture thrive? It would not take all 4,000 - in fact, let's presume that just half of the 150 who show up regularly could be motivated to pursue farming - those 75 could make all the difference. And, in the mid-term we would not depend upon current students to advance agriculture but rather upon those who are presently working the land. If the present farmers do well, there will be even more reason for young people to view farming in a positive light. I re-state my view that the HSF has the very real potential to help our farmers and producers of other locally produced goods prosper and flourish.

Last edited by glossyp; September 28th, 2007 at 07:06 PM. Reason: more info
  #45  
Old September 28th, 2007, 06:57 PM
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LikaNui LikaNui is offline
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Angry Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

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Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
The residents of Moloka'i may seem poor and backward to outsiders, but let me tell you, they are fiercely proud of who they are, and money is not the same all mighty god to them as it is to most other residents of the State.
Okay, I've been trying to stay out of this, but... there she goes again, making another outrageously massive overgeneralization without any proof whatsoever to back up her sheer and utter nonsense. Her remark is simply ignorant.
And of course since she lives in Seattle, how the hell could she possibly know how those of us who live in the state of Hawai`i feel?!??!!
She doesn't know how WE feel about the residents of Moloka`i, and she based her retort on what just one person wrote here, yet all of sudden all of the rest of us in the whole state supposedly feel the same way. What a load of crap. (Sorry, but that's what it is.)

Quote:
Again, please don't judge the people of Moloka'i on the basis of your standards.
And (without a "please"), stop judging US from your home over 3,000 miles away!!!

Quote:
And they want to protect what they have for as long as they can.
So, what, the rest of us DON'T want to protect what we have?
What an incredibly ignorant and flat-out DUMB remark.
Again.


(Since she supposedly has me on Ignore, somebody please quote this so she'll see it.)
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Last edited by LikaNui; September 28th, 2007 at 07:17 PM. Reason: Fixed a typo, gonfunnit
  #46  
Old September 28th, 2007, 07:17 PM
joshuatree joshuatree is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

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Originally Posted by glossyp View Post
Are you implying that one of Kauai's agricultural products is an illegal substance? So your concern about Oahu residents coming and selling drugs is because they are going to compete with Kauai producers? Never mind. How about I just answer the question. The primary "legal" agriculture products of Kauai are coffee and flowers. Bananas, papayas, green vegetables, etc. are also part of what is produced on Kauai. There is also honey, taro, pork and numerous other items. Could there be more? Absolutely.
See, this is what CF was implying with his comments about agriculture from Kauai, that there isn't much legit agriculture coming from there. I find that ironic since Kauai is nicknamed the Garden Isle. Maybe agriculture has been dying off, not because things can't grow there but because the cost is prohibitive and competition is fierce. So here we have someone trying to kill off something that may have lowered shipping cost, provided better access. The funny thing is, if the ferry indeed provides lowered costs, agriculture could possibly rebound and that in turn keeps Kauai rural and undeveloped, the things that protesters are howling for. Irony......


Quote:
Originally Posted by glossyp View Post
Right now they have to depend upon either the YB stranglehold or very expensive air freight. The HSF would allow an farmer/producer to take a vehicle they already own, drive onto the ferry and make the trip to deliver goods to Oahu (where it has been proven that people will pay a premium for quality, locally grown/produced products) for a cost significantly less than must be paid to YB and in a more timely fashion. The farmer/ag producer can then drive back on the HSF and go home. Faster, less expensive, more direct and with excellent potential that said farmer/producer will put the profits back into expanding their operation.
I can already see protesters arguing that the ferry only does 1 trip a day and the turnaround window is so short, drivers will need to stay over. But I attribute this to the very fact that the ferry tried shifting departure/arrival hours to fit better with traffic hours. Also, at the end of the day, it's just one boat. Maybe if it was given a chance, more boats would then resolve the tight scheduling and truly open up access for farmers.

Indeed, there is a market for fresh, premium products. The organic trend is picking up, Whole Foods is opening up on Oahu, niche agriculture has a future.
  #47  
Old September 28th, 2007, 07:35 PM
Miulang Miulang is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

According to this Maui News story, the evidentiary hearing on Maui should be wrapping up next week. The only witnesses left to testify are for HSF. That means that Judge Cardoza could be announcing his findings sometime later next week.

On Kaua'i, the legal team representing the enviros withdrew their case in Circuit Court in favor of taking an appeal directly to the Hawai'i State Supreme Court. Unfortunately, with the case loads that the HSC has, the backlog is tremendous (that's why it took 2 years for the Maui appeal to be heard). Because of the legal precedent set by the Maui case, maybe they can move up this pending case and deal with it sooner rather than later.

Hopefully, though, the Maui decision will satisfy Kaua'i too, so there can be a resolution of this sad kabuki tale and people can move on with their lives, whatever the decision may be.

Miulang
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  #48  
Old September 28th, 2007, 07:56 PM
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Thumbs down Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miulang View Post
(...)
the evidentiary hearing on Maui should be wrapping up next week. (...)
That means that Judge Cardoza could be announcing (...)
the Maui case, maybe they can move (...)
Hopefully, though, the Maui decision (...)
*sigh*

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  #49  
Old September 28th, 2007, 08:26 PM
Miulang Miulang is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

Cute story in an earlier edition of the Advertiser about the Maui employees of HSF who built a float and participated (along with John Garibaldi) in the parade that opened the Maui County Fair yesterday.

Quote:
Argylle DeRego and Steven Phander designed the 25-foot-long plywood ferry using the actual vessel design. The float was built under a tent structure at the Kahului port that normally serves as the ferry's vehicle check-in site.

The scale model was placed atop two luggage carts and towed by a luggage tug.

Phander said everyone worked on the float at some point, and that the parade brought the employees even closer together as a group.

There was a mildly awkward moment before the start of the parade, when the Superferry float pulled up next to a trailer holding Hawaiian Canoe Club's two koa canoes. The real Alakai will have to share Kahului Harbor with the club, whose members have voiced concerns about how their longtime and traditional Hawaiian activities may be affected by the new ferry service.

The company's unit also had to wait its turn as the Pacific Whale Foundation's parade entry passed, sparking murmurs in the crowd of a possible collision between the Superferry float and the foundation's large inflatable whale.
Miulang
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  #50  
Old September 28th, 2007, 10:10 PM
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helen helen is offline
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Default Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 6

I am suprised no one brought this up yet but a segment of the neighbor island people who would benfit from the SuperFerry service are those going to Oahu seeking medical treatment that's only available on Oahu. Some people fly in and fly out on the same day, others stay for weeks on Oahu.

I grant you this is not a big number of people who do this but they could save money on rental cars or save time by shipping their car via Young Bros.

I did mention this eariler that students from the neighbor islands going to Oahu for college can also use the SuperFerry to ship their cars as well as themselves. And they can do it more often like during summer break, Christmas break and spring break.
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