Women in a man's world - What are your views?

[Menehune Man]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

Let's see... I'm a man, who loves women (a few very particularly- Mom,Wife,Daughter)
and use "fairness" as my constant guide, I'm a feminist too!

[acousticlady]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

Gee, I hope I have not come across as a "man hater" That is the last thing I consider myself. I have been happily married for 30 yrs and that has happened because we have great respect for one another. I grew up in a house full of brothers and male cousins. I have great respect for them. It was because of them and my father that throughout my life it never occured to me that I was anything BUT equal. Even in the working world, I have great respect for the men I work with on a daily basis. And I have every confidence that they feel they same about me. I also hope I have not come across as being a "manly" woman. I LOVE being a woman. I love being feminine (sp?). I love getting dressed up and wearing make-up - ocassionally (don't know if I could do that every day-but once in a while).

I am often asked "how I did it" and I usually respond with "I didn't think about it, I just did it". It never occured to me that I was breaking barriers or glass ceilings. I got into the field(s) I did because of my passion for them. Just as with anything I do in life - marriage motherhood,career - it was purely PASSION!

[sinjin]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

Let's see... I'm a man, who loves women (a few very particularly- Mom,Wife,Daughter)
and use "fairness" as my constant guide, I'm a feminist too!

I too support feminist causes but not at the expense of femininity. Too often women have adopted male behavioral attributes to "fit in" with their male counterparts in the working world. A shame IMO. I have been told that I feel threatened by "strong" women but that's not it. I just find the mimicing of what I already dislike in men to be especially unbecoming for a woman.

Oh and on the women doing traditionally male jobs like firefighter or soldier where strength is certainly an asset- How come you see 125lb female firefighters but never a 125lb male firefighter? I already know the answer.

[Karen]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

No, no one on this thread has even come close to sounding like they are from the man-hater group, which of course does exist, but not here! I've read passion and energy on this thread, no hate.

A very few in our society, a few women that have high-profile have tainted the label "feminist" for the many that are dang good ones and excellent ladies, citizens, etc. Y'all are cleaning it up evidenced by your posts here. huggz~

Editing these in here...these FEW, radical ones are the ones that have tarnished a true and honorable movement, and dirtied the word "feminist." They have harmed the true cause....obviously....quotes are next....


"In order to raise children with equality, we must take them away from families and communally raise them." (Dr. Mary Jo Bane, feminist and assistant professor of education at Wellesley College and associate director of the school's Center for Research on Woman).

"Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession... The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family-maker is a choice that shouldn't be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that." (Vivian Gornick, feminist author, University of Illinois, "The Daily Illini," April 25, 1981.

Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." (radical feminist leader Sheila Cronan).

The simple fact is that every woman must be willing to be identified as a lesbian to be fully feminist." (National NOW Times, Jan.1988).

"No woman should be authorized to stay at home to raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have that choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one." Simone de Beauvoir, author of _The Second Sex_, the book that is credited with launching the mainstream of the modern feminist movement --- Article 912510 of soc.men: Date: 7 Mar 2002 05:42:45 -0800

"Ninety-five percent of women's experiences are about being a victim. Or about being an underdog, or having to survive... women didn't go to Vietnam and blow up things up. They are not Rambo," said Jodie Foster in The New York Times Magazine

"The institution of sexual intercourse is anti-feminist" -- Ti-Grace Atkinson "Amazon Odyssey" (p. 86)

"Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies." -- Andrea Dworkin

[anapuni808]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

You don't have to wear the labels others create, if you don't want to. But it doesn't hurt to get clearer definitions of said labels before deciding whether to use them or not, for yourself or others. Maybe you and Fran should schedule a lunch-time discussion of your own understandings of what feminism is? Good excuse as any to get together for ono grindz!

Leo, while I appreciate your thoughts and wisdom, I am truly puzzled: where in what I wrote was the inference that anyone posting on here was a "man hater"? Did I use that phrase in my posting? I don't need to explain or discuss or justify my life & beliefs with anyone. Anyone is free to disagree with me at any time. I really don't give a rip.

and yes, I am seriously pissed off right now.

[1stwahine]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

Leo, while I appreciate your thoughts and wisdom, I am truly puzzled: where in what I wrote was the inference that anyone posting on here was a "man hater"? Did I use that phrase in my posting? I don't need to explain or discuss or justify my life & beliefs with anyone. Anyone is free to disagree with me at any time. I really don't give a rip.

and yes, I am seriously pissed off right now.

shyly comes into the room...waves flag!!! Hello! I'm guilty. I wrote dee Bad Word.

I didn't mean any OFFENSE.

I humbly APOLOGIZE!

Lynn

[sinjin]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

And "Homosexual Mafia" slips by? Oh Bruddah.

[anapuni808]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

And "Homosexual Mafia" slips by? Oh Bruddah.

When you are quoting something, it would help if you included the source so that there is no confusion.

[sinjin]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

When you are quoting something, it would help if you included the source so that there is no confusion.

You're absolutely right. Forgive me.

And by the way, if the Homosexual mafia is always arguing that sexual preference DOESN'T matter, then why should it matter what a President's sexual preference may be. Always the hypocritical and intolerant left.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

where in what I wrote was the inference that anyone posting on here was a "man hater"? Did I use that phrase in my posting?

shyly comes into the room...waves flag!!! Hello! I'm guilty. I wrote dee Bad Word.
I didn't mean any OFFENSE.
I humbly APOLOGIZE!
Lynn

Hope that clears it up, Fran. I told Lynn that "feminism" had nothing to do with "man hating." She used the phrase, not you.

[Palolo Joe]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

I don't need to explain or discuss or justify my life & beliefs with anyone. Anyone is free to disagree with me at any time. I really don't give a rip.

and yes, I am seriously pissed off right now.

You don't need to explain, or justify... anyone is free to disagree... you don't give a rip.

But you're seriously pissed off.

Awwww... pua ting. Get over it.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

Gee, I hope I have not come across as a "man hater" That is the last thing I consider myself. I have been happily married for 30 yrs and that has happened because we have great respect for one another. I grew up in a house full of brothers and male cousins. I have great respect for them. It was because of them and my father that throughout my life it never occured to me that I was anything BUT equal. Even in the working world, I have great respect for the men I work with on a daily basis. And I have every confidence that they feel they same about me. I also hope I have not come across as being a "manly" woman. I LOVE being a woman. I love being feminine (sp?). I love getting dressed up and wearing make-up - ocassionally (don't know if I could do that every day-but once in a while).

I am often asked "how I did it" and I usually respond with "I didn't think about it, I just did it". It never occured to me that I was breaking barriers or glass ceilings. I got into the field(s) I did because of my passion for them. Just as with anything I do in life - marriage motherhood,career - it was purely PASSION!

This is a great reminder of my first gripe re: the "F Word" having lost so much power that one has to qualify that one isn't anti-male in order to be pro-equality.

I too support feminist causes but not at the expense of femininity. Too often women have adopted male behavioral attributes to "fit in" with their male counterparts in the working world. A shame IMO. I have been told that I feel threatened by "strong" women but that's not it. I just find the mimicing of what I already dislike in men to be especially unbecoming for a woman.

Oh and on the women doing traditionally male jobs like firefighter or soldier where strength is certainly an asset- How come you see 125lb female firefighters but never a 125lb male firefighter? I already know the answer.

Sinjin, I regard you among the open-minded among the HTers. What do you mean about our femininity?

As for non-trad safety officer jobs for women, she must pass the physical muster to get hired; I know female firefighters, police officers and jail guards from my isle. I am familiar with them because they are my husband's coworkers as well as women in my family and mothers of my kids' classmates/team mates. Drag the sandbag, do the pushups, run the mile, do the bike, rappel down the cliffside, learn to use the self-defense techniques in training. The earn their spots on the force. Further, they deal with jealous/suspicious wives, co-workers a bit confused about social boundaries and climbing the ladder in the workplace. Why do they do it? Because something about the job makes them want to serve. They aren't into imitating men or taking their jobs. They bring their femininity to the job; help mellow the testosterone, comfort the flipping out child or kupuna, bring calm to the inmates acting out. They are an asset to the force.

They deserve respect because they bust ass to earn it.

No, no one on this thread has even come close to sounding like they are from the man-hater group, which of course does exist, but not here! I've read passion and energy on this thread, no hate.

A very few in our society, a few women that have high-profile have tainted the label "feminist" for the many that are dang good ones and excellent ladies, citizens, etc. Y'all are cleaning it up evidenced by your posts here. huggz~

Editing these in here...these FEW, radical ones are the ones that have tarnished a true and honorable movement, and dirtied the word "feminist." They have harmed the true cause....obviously....quotes are next....

"Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies." -- Andrea Dworkin

Andrea Dworkin never said this.

Feminism is almost as broad a term as Christianity. I don't throw out the love for God and respect for His love for us because some evil person kills while claiming His holy name. Yep, some people get in the way of the point™. But the point is greater: feminism is a noble movement that claims roots in both the French and American Revolutions. In the classic sense, it was about pro-equality. To afford us the luxury of choosing whether or not we can vote for a female president, because 1)we got the right to vote and 2)a chick is allowed to run for office.

From one of my favorite women: Susan B. Anthony, "Cautious, careful people, always casting about to preserve their reputation or social standards, can never bring about reform." It is upon their backs, and yes, even the noise of the fringe that allows for our generation the latitude to teach our daughters the limits to which they may aspire. May we never, ever, ever throw that baby out with the bath water.

respectfully, PM

[Karen]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

I have come to pretty much trust snopes, so thanks for dispelling one of the looney-sounding sources.

What is a shame is that they can't all be found to be untrue quotes. There are more than the females I quoted, and they are all the ones that rightly encouraged Rush to coin the old term he did back in the eighties,

"feminazis."

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Women in a man's world - What are your views?

I have come to pretty much trust snopes, so thanks for dispelling one of the looney-sounding sources.

What is a shame is that they can't all be found to be untrue quotes. There are more than the females I quoted, and they are all the ones that rightly encouraged Rush to coin the old term he did back in the eighties,

"feminazis."

So you choose to toss out that baby, eh?

[Karen]

Toss out what baby. Wouldn't you the the one more likely to toss the baby cuz one quote was found to be false?

I bet you really are making a good point, but it's not as obvious as you think it should be. come again, and thanks~

Wow, it's a wonder Dworkin didn't...say that! Brainyquote.com has some quotes that are reportedly hers...

"Childbearing is glorified in part because women die from it."

" Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice. Rape, originally defined as abduction, became marriage by capture. Marriage meant the taking was to extend in time, to be not only use of but possession of, or ownership."

" No woman needs intercourse; few women escape it."

" Only when manhood is dead - and it will perish when ravaged femininity no longer sustains it - only then will we know what it is to be free."

"The argument between wives and whores is an old one; each one thinking that whatever she is, at least she is not the other."

Pretty radical stuff~