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  #26  
Old May 29th, 2007, 09:53 PM
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

Aaron, I agree with your basic premise, but I have to tell you, Hilo looks the way it did 100+ yrs ago. Take a good look at the map hanging in Cronies and you will see that it is still the same structure, and follows the same major road veins and with the exception of Komohana, I don't see a single new major roadway (how do I know this? I have a copy of the same map).

Waiakea Uka and Kaumana did develop since then. Ask *anyone* who lives there about traffic snarls, accidents waiting to happen, how many fatal accidents happened before two traffic lights got installed (one each). For giggles, stay in each area overnight and leave the house between 6-8am and see what I mean.

I want to say that the whole dang island is doing a piss-poor job at urban planning. I'd bet that all of the towns are still following 100 yr old blueprints. (Tim! You're up, dude!
Bismillah! we will not let you go-let me go
Will not let you go-let me go
Will not let you go let me go...
<this is the part where Tim sings...oh I'll let him do it>

Big Island needs to think hard on the rail now. connect all four sides of the isle and hub it at the Saddle (the big question: which side should the Ka'u rail be on? Will Mauna Loa blow on the Puna side and head for Hilo, or threaten Miloli'i again? Hmm...need a geo study).
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  #27  
Old May 29th, 2007, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

What am I up for? I'm ready.

"Caramia, Caramia, Beelzebub has a devil for a whore
Poor Me, Poor Me, Poor MEEEEEEE" (Champagne glass cracking)

or something like that. I think I'm too young to know.

But I know that Big Island will never have decent planning or ANY infrastructure until the protesting/activist boomers die off, and my generation (X) is able to start building stuff without all the red tape. It's only gonna be another 10 years, and hopefully things won't be too badly destroyed by then.
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  #28  
Old May 29th, 2007, 10:39 PM
Leo Lakio Leo Lakio is offline
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

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Originally Posted by timkona View Post
"Caramia, Caramia, Beelzebub has a devil for a whore
Poor Me, Poor Me, Poor MEEEEEEE" (Champagne glass cracking)

or something like that. I think I'm too young to know.
[offtopic]"Mamma mia, mamma mia, mamma mia, let me go.
Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me...for me...for MEEEEEEE."
But I like your version, too.[/offtopic]
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  #29  
Old May 29th, 2007, 10:45 PM
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

Sorry Leo. Just showing my age. Which is the main reason why nobody ever listens to me. (Especially when I'm right, and they disagree.)
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  #30  
Old May 29th, 2007, 11:05 PM
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

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Originally Posted by Pua'i Mana'o View Post
Aaron, I agree with your basic premise, but I have to tell you, Hilo looks the way it did 100+ yrs ago. Take a good look at the map hanging in Cronies and you will see that it is still the same structure, and follows the same major road veins and with the exception of Komohana, I don't see a single new major roadway (how do I know this? I have a copy of the same map).
Puainako Extension- Construction started late 2001 completed late 2004.
http://starbulletin.com/2004/09/22/news/story8.html

Mohouli Street extension
http://starbulletin.com/2002/04/16/news/story10.html

Keaau Bypass
http://starbulletin.com/98/11/23/news/story10.html
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  #31  
Old May 29th, 2007, 11:20 PM
Leo Lakio Leo Lakio is offline
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

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Sorry Leo. Just showing my age. Which is the main reason why nobody ever listens to me. (Especially when I'm right, and they disagree.)
Trust me, Tim - even when I disagree, I listen to you. I listen, and I think about what you say. Maybe I don't always "get it," but I can see that you are no fool.
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  #32  
Old May 30th, 2007, 01:11 AM
joshuatree joshuatree is offline
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

Here's an idea regarding road infrastructure at least. Obviously, the population to land area of the Big Isle is a lopsided ratio. So, instead of trying to figure out how to stretch the local tax dollar to accommodate every road infrastructure desired, how about luring a private firm to build and maintain the major arteries that connect the towns. They basically own it for like 30/40 years and charge a toll. Then the local tax dollars can be used to focus on the local roads in each town. Think the people of Hawaii would dig that? Countries like Australia do this because obviously, there's no way a population of 21 million would generate enough tax revenue to build out an interstate system on a continent the size of the 48 states. The Big Isle is like a microcosm of that scenario.
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  #33  
Old May 30th, 2007, 01:52 AM
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

Man off for a weekend and look at the talk!

Okay I live in Puna and am a recent transplant from Honolulu. I read that editorial (thanks Aaron for that email link) and at first I was a bit offended, but as I read it I realized that me moving to Keaau was part of the ongoing problem of increased traffic along the Pahoa Highway corridor.

But being from Honolulu, I don't complain about the traffic because quite frankly...I'm used to it.

As for the whiners being the mainland transplants, I don't think they're the whiners here. It's those who've lived in Puna BEFORE the sudden growth and the disintegration of their lifestyle by newcomers like myself.

And it is those people who do have a legitimate reason to complain.

The demographics of Pahoa itself is changing dramatically. Headstart down in Hawaiian Beaches subdivision is seeing a reduction of qualified families as those who rented in that subdivision are being squeezed out by a richer population growth in that area.

I don't call it whining but I do call it legitimate concerns that if the County of Hawaii allowed people to buy and build (construction permits) homes that ultimately fill the County's financial coffers to the brim with increased property tax revenue, those who contributed to that increase should benefit from it as well. We aren't. As we continue to grow in lower Puna, where are the property tax monies going? Kahakai BLVD hasn't changed at all and remains the most dangerous intersection in the STATE OF HAWAII.

When the growth exceeded the capacity of the multiple water spigots along Pahoa Highway near Orchardland what did the County do? Moved it down the road towards Pahoa and added a few more spigots. This was their answer to increased growth?

As for Railroad Avenue, that would have been a great idea for expansion however the obstical wasn't from the County...it was from those living along that corridor that opposed to it's expansion. I also heard that Railroad Avenue isn't exactly a road at all but an easement.

What do I think? Yes I do believe Railroad should be connected and widened to handle the growth of HPP. We do need an alternate route out of this area.

And yes we do need to widen Pahoa Highway in both directions. The bottleneck that occurs at the Girl Scout lodge is a major pain (two lanes merging to one).

The concern was that with the widening, along would be more reckless drivers. I stand corrected when in a previous thread I said the worst drivers come from the Big Island. I'll fine tune that statement a bit...the worst come from my neck of the woods (Keaau/Pahoa).

To correct that we need more traffic enforcement with patrol officers monitoring traffic speeds along that corridor in both directions.

I think with the added tax revenue from this area alone could justify increasing the Puna Police precinct.

Yes Puna has changed and has lost some of it's boonieness, but it has changed and along with that there must be something done to make the commute easier. Yes we moved in to Puna and yes we may be the one's complaining however we are the ones that brought in the tax revenue so we should benefit from it.

And I do feel for those in West Hawaii who have brought in the lion's share of tax revenue for the County of Hawaii yet have seen East Hawaii benefit from it's income.
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  #34  
Old May 30th, 2007, 03:11 AM
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

Actually, Hilo seems to be in better shape than Honolulu.
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  #35  
Old May 30th, 2007, 05:33 AM
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

Railroad Avenue is a few hundred yards away from our old homestead in the Panaewa farmlots subdivision. We used to use it as the backroad to the county dump, passing the East Kawailani extension along the way. Puainako Street by the present-day Prince Kuhio Plaza did not exist back then.

We saw the old maps indicating that RR Avenue extended to Keeau, but we never followed it in that direction.
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  #36  
Old May 30th, 2007, 05:49 AM
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Lightbulb Toll Roads

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuatree View Post
...how about luring a private firm to build and maintain the major arteries that connect the towns. They basically own it for like 30/40 years and charge a toll. Then the local tax dollars can be used to focus on the local roads in each town. Think the people of Hawaii would dig that?
This is nothing new, as the Hawai‘i Automobile Dealers Association (HADA) has been pushing this idea for some time. HADA Executive Director David Rolf wrote an interesting commentary in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin that goes in-depth on the various system in place worldwide, and how such a scenario would apply to O‘ahu. He even bills it as an alternative to rail transit.
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  #37  
Old May 30th, 2007, 06:07 AM
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

You can't really take Railroad ave all the way from Panaewa to HPP because the road's been blocked off with boulders. My Dad in the late 30's told me that there was a railroad (hence Railroad Avenue) that took sugar cane from the sugar mill in Keaau back to Hilo along that route.

Railroad is the most obvious route to and from HPP and Hilo and I think it will be the road to pick.

Above the Pahoa Highway should be another route thru Road 9 that cuts thru Hawaiian Acres. This route will allow people from that subdivision a route to Hilo cutting right thru the Keaau Ag lots and feeding either to Volcano Highway at Kamehameha School or continue thru to Keaau Town.

With these three routes, traffic congestion should reduce itself with Railroad handling HPP traffic, Pahoa Highway covering Pahoa town and Road 9 taking care of Hawaiian Acres, Ainaloa and Orchardland.
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  #38  
Old May 30th, 2007, 01:52 PM
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

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Originally Posted by Konaguy View Post
Puainako Extension- Construction started late 2001 completed late 2004.
http://starbulletin.com/2004/09/22/news/story8.html

Mohouli Street extension
http://starbulletin.com/2002/04/16/news/story10.html

Keaau Bypass
http://starbulletin.com/98/11/23/news/story10.html
Puainako and Mohouli extensions were on the books since before either of us were born, Aaron, and look at why: Kaumana is home now to over half of Hilo's population and they had only one road in/out, plus said road is all over lava tubes with no ability to be widened. And it still took 30+ years to build those two roads! And Keaau bypass was the genius of Arakaki, who found fed funds because the Y is within x miles of an international airport. And, like I began earlier, that bypass is only a 3-way, with the eventual plans to turn it into a full intersection to be borne by Shipman, who are still drumming up the anchor businesses required to fund those developments that will allow them the capital needed for those road improvements so that (deep inhale) the big rigs that are held hostage at Shipman Park can manueuver in/out safely will have the luxury of a traffic light to do so, as the county denied Shipman putting one in on the Panaewa stretch.
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  #39  
Old May 30th, 2007, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

Yes I am aware that those roads were planned to be built for eons. But my point is they were built nonetheless and no other major roads have been built during
this time elsewhere on the island.
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  #40  
Old May 30th, 2007, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

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Yes I am aware that those roads were planned to be built for eons. But my point is they were built nonetheless and no other major roads have been built during
this time elsewhere on the island.
You are telling me that all that area around Ka'iwi St, Palani Road where it meets with Henry, Hualalai Road mauka, KamIII Road, all of that 'infrastructure' for Keauhou Shopping Center, Makalapua, Costco, La'iopua, Kealakehe HS, dump road, are these antiquated meridians that have been there since prior to yours and my births?

Kinoole, Kilauea, Bayfront have nothing on compared to all that track laid down around K-K town. Only Kanoelehua Ave can be argued in terms of widening that has gone on over the years.

Aaron, I get your major premise, and I fully support that. But the facts are that this whole island gets hammerjawed before they/we/you/I/da gubermint moves development forward. The whole island.
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  #41  
Old May 30th, 2007, 11:15 PM
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

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Originally Posted by Pua'i Mana'o View Post
You are telling me that all that area around Ka'iwi St, Palani Road where it meets with Henry, Hualalai Road mauka, KamIII Road, all of that 'infrastructure' for Keauhou Shopping Center, Makalapua, Costco, La'iopua, Kealakehe HS, dump road, are these antiquated meridians that have been there since prior to yours and my births?

Kinoole, Kilauea, Bayfront have nothing on compared to all that track laid down around K-K town. Only Kanoelehua Ave can be argued in terms of widening that has gone on over the years.

Aaron, I get your major premise, and I fully support that. But the facts are that this whole island gets hammerjawed before they/we/you/I/da gubermint moves development forward. The whole island.

The roads you mention were developer built projects to support their respective projects. Queen Liliuokalani Trust built the roads around Kmart. Maryl Group built Henry Street to support their development and dedicated it to the county. The last COUNTY OR STATE road built in West Hawaii was Queen Kaahumanu Highway Extension which was built in the late 1980s.
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  #42  
Old May 31st, 2007, 12:06 AM
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Default Re: Toll Roads

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Originally Posted by TuNnL View Post
This is nothing new, as the Hawai‘i Automobile Dealers Association (HADA) has been pushing this idea for some time. HADA Executive Director David Rolf wrote an interesting commentary in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin that goes in-depth on the various system in place worldwide, and how such a scenario would apply to O‘ahu. He even bills it as an alternative to rail transit.
Yeah but in Oahu's case, it's also an issue of finding ways to reduce the number of cars on the island which to no surprise, HADA would be against. I'll leave that debate for another thread. But for Hawaii, a tollroad would make more sense because of the few population centers separated by vast open spaces and these pop centers aren't big enough to generate enough tax revenue to build all the infrastructure they want.
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  #43  
Old May 31st, 2007, 01:33 AM
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

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The roads you mention were developer built projects to support their respective projects. Queen Liliuokalani Trust built the roads around Kmart. Maryl Group built Henry Street to support their development and dedicated it to the county. The last COUNTY OR STATE road built in West Hawaii was Queen Kaahumanu Highway Extension which was built in the late 1980s.
then you need to read those very links you had provided. All three of those Hilo roads were built with 80% federal funds.
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  #44  
Old May 31st, 2007, 10:35 AM
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

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then you need to read those very links you had provided. All three of those Hilo roads were built with 80% federal funds.
That is normal for most roadway projects. The FHWA administration funds 80% of the cost. But that isn't point, not even close. The fact is four new roads have built on the east side of the Big Island by the county or state (or FHWA)-None on the rest of the island, since the late 1980s.

I really don't understand this is so hard to grasp. I can see it clearly

1. Saddle Road Re-alignment (m.m 28-35) FHWA/DAR 2007
2. Puainako Street Extension -2004
3. Mohouli Street Extension - 2002
4. Keaau Bypass -1999
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  #45  
Old May 31st, 2007, 11:07 AM
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

What is it that you see so clearly? How are these roads more unique/less critical than the bz-dev roadways that have helped blow up KK town? The County/State portion is identical for each; the burden was econcomically supported by fed$ or private industry, not Uncle Harry's/Aunty Linda's coffers.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 12:37 PM
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

And it is those people who do have a legitimate reason to complain.

As for Railroad Avenue, that would have been a great idea for expansion however the obstical wasn't from the County...it was from those living along that corridor that opposed to it's expansion.

Craig, you are talking about the Politics of NO. You see, protest and activism is a very popular notion these days. It is good to be AGAINST anything. The people who are AGAINST anything are seldom identified as villains.

But the balls truth is that all the folks with an ax to grind, including bones, environment, NIMBY, traffic, tall buidings, et al......these are all the folks who are the VILLAINS on Big Island. By and large, they are not purposefully malicious, just miseducated and stubbornly ignorant or closeminded. Is there a word (besides stupid) that means 'terrified of the future'?

Alas, an entire generation of Americans was trained during Vietnam to say NO, and perfected their NO message using environmentalism. As these people get older, and become in charge of stuff, they honestly think that the best answer to everything is NO. All of these folks are wrong, wrong, wrong. And they don't know it.

So traffic will get worse. Dwellings will cost more. Our children will move to Las Vegas. And this is what we all want. Too bad. So sad. Get over it.
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  #47  
Old May 31st, 2007, 12:47 PM
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

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Is there a word (besides stupid) that means 'terrified of the future'?
I believe the proper term is "conservative".
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  #48  
Old May 31st, 2007, 12:54 PM
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

I was looking for a word along the lines of xenophobia, which means the fear of outsiders.

I'm laughing hard at the notion that conservative implies being terrified of the future. Reality is that the Politics of NO is mostly populated by liberals. But there is no sense in thinking about it logically, right Sin?
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Old May 31st, 2007, 01:34 PM
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

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I was looking for a word along the lines of xenophobia, which means the fear of outsiders.

I'm laughing hard at the notion that conservative implies being terrified of the future. Reality is that the Politics of NO is mostly populated by liberals. But there is no sense in thinking about it logically, right Sin?
con·serv·a·tive -

* Disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change.

* Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.

* Resistant to change

* A person who is reluctant to accept changes and new ideas.

* Tending to conserve; preservative.

You're right though Tim, no point. Especially when your opinions are identical in your mind with "truth" and anyone who doesn't see things your way are by definition "ignorant". No doubt by "logical" you mean the mental process of proceeding to conclusions identical to your own.

Even when I agree with you I find you most disagreeble.
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  #50  
Old May 31st, 2007, 04:41 PM
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Default Re: Offensive Letter To The Editor About Puna

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Originally Posted by Pua'i Mana'o View Post
What is it that you see so clearly? How are these roads more unique/less critical than the bz-dev roadways that have helped blow up KK town? The County/State portion is identical for each; the burden was econcomically supported by fed$ or private industry, not Uncle Harry's/Aunty Linda's coffers.
I've driven around Hilo. There has been only very few instances where the traffic has been bad. The traffic flows much better in Hilo because they have a better network of roads. Compare that to the rest of the island, except the Keaau Bypass no new roads have been built since 1987 (I believe) with the Queen Kaahumanu Extension. Since then traffic in Puna, Kohala and Kona has exponentially gotten worse.

Food for thought, if you think Kamaka'eha, Makala Blvd and Henry Street is on par with Hilo's network of roads, I find that laughable.

Try driving in Hilo and then try driving in Kamuela or Kona or Puna, you'll notice difference.In short no one can deny, Puna, and the rest of the island have been shafted. I've seen it, I've lived through it.

I'm not including the Saddle Road re-alignment/re-construction because that is a special situation. As its being funded largely by the US Army.
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