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Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

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  • Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

    One man's sacred is another man's laughing stock.
    You can apply any terms to any situation to suit your perspective.

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    • Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

      You know, I may not agree with sansei about this issue, but I can respect his values about it - because I suspect he walks the walk. It's the hypocritical "family values" types that get me riled - the ones who profess one behavior, insist that we all follow it, but don't live by their own rules.

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      • Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

        Sansei, once upon a time women in America were 2nd class without rights. Because of tradition. People were actually taught to believe that blacks were slaves, and bad people. Both very stupid ideas that were taught to generation after generation, until some people had the smarts to say - this is ridiculous! We ARE all equals, and all deserve the right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". Why deny that to some people just because they're different than what you're used to?

        oh, wait, maybe its an idiotic, old fashioned, learned human tradition - to oppress and fear those who are different.
        ~ This is the strangest life I've ever known ~

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        • Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

          Please don't take offense but its like members of one religion are saying their religion is so perfect that they have the right, the duty to God, to impose its views on people with other religions. Unitarians and Quakers accept gay marriage, why should they have their religious beliefs trampled on? How would you feel if somebody did that to you? My religion is so cool I just know nobody else could possibly be right so its my duty to God to make you live by the rules of my religion whether you want to or not. See Northern Ireland, see Israel v. Palestine, see Indian Muslims v. Hindus in the '40's and '50's, on and on and on. Look at history. No institution has more human blood and suffering on its hands than religion. Why? Well my religion is so cool.......

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          • Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

            Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
            No institution has more human blood and suffering on its hands than religion.
            And yet, at the heart of it, that's never what religions are about - it's the corrupting influence of human beings that take them down that path.

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            • Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

              Originally posted by sansei View Post
              i was always taught to believe in sacred marriage and that sacred marriage was the only way between one gentleman and one lady
              Originally posted by Fritz View Post
              One man's sacred is another man's laughing stock.
              So by Fritzian logic, if marriage is a laughing stock, why have marriage benefits — sanctioned by the government — at all? Eliminating them would make things fair and equal for all.

              We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

              — U.S. President Bill Clinton
              USA TODAY, page 2A
              11 March 1993

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              • Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                I apologize if my comments gave offense. Right about religion basically appealing to good human instincts, almost always--look at the Sermon On The Mount, and Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone, all so reasonable and yet look at the Spanish Inquisition or the extermination of native American peoples in the name of Christ, on and on. I guess the problem is merely mouthing the nice things religion says without actually practicing them. I never knew if this one pro Bush Iraq War guy was joking or serious, but he said that when Jesus said Blessed Be The Peacemakers he was referring to the missiles by that name.

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                • Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                  Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                  So by Fritzian logic, if marriage is a laughing stock, why have marriage benefits — sanctioned by the government — at all? Eliminating them would make things fair and equal for all.
                  Obviously misunderstood; marriage is not the laughing stock. Making the concept simpler: One man's religion is another man's laughing stock. One case in point-some of those over the top hats that come out of the Vatican. Quite entertaining.

                  So while you hold "whatever" sacred-don't assign your sacred values to our government. And don't think your sacred values should impede someone else's rights.

                  Iran is one nation under God, The U.S.A. is one nation under a constitution. Let the laws reflect THAT.
                  You can apply any terms to any situation to suit your perspective.

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                  • Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                    Originally posted by Fritz View Post
                    marriage is not the laughing stock. Making the concept simpler: One man's religion is another man's laughing stock. One case in point-some of those over the top hats that come out of the Vatican. Quite entertaining.

                    So while you hold "whatever" sacred-don't assign your sacred values to our government. And don't think your sacred values should impede someone else's rights.

                    Iran is one nation under God, The U.S.A. is one nation under a constitution.
                    Exactly! The first amendment verbatim: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

                    Marriage is a religious ceremony. Therefore any law respecting such a ceremony should be struck down as unconstitutional. It is wrong for the government to provide ANY benefit to a couple, solely because they are married. That’s not only discrimination against single people, it’s respecting an establishment of religion. It effectively assigns sacred values to secular law. Thankfully, the state hasn’t gone against the spirit of the U.S. Constitution by allowing a civil unions bill to make it into the books.
                    Last edited by TuNnL; July 16, 2010, 08:45 PM. Reason: accuracy

                    We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

                    — U.S. President Bill Clinton
                    USA TODAY, page 2A
                    11 March 1993

                    Comment


                    • Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                      Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                      Marriage is a religious ceremony. Therefore any law respecting such a ceremony should be struck down as unconstitutional. It is wrong for the government to provide ANY benefit to a couple, solely because they are married. That’s not only discrimination against single people, it’s respecting an establishment of religion. It effectively assigns sacred values to secular law. Thankfully, the state hasn’t gone against the spirit of the U.S. Constitution by allowing a civil unions bill to make it into the books.
                      Marriage began as a civil contract and social arrangement. The concept of marriage came to include religious ceremonies for some people but no religion in general and certainly not any one particular religion originated the concept of marriage. In Hawaii, you can have a minister perform a marriage ceremony but it is not a legal marriage (not even between one man and one woman) unless and until the appropriate paperwork is filed and approved in by the state. You can be legally married without a religious marriage ceremony.

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                      • Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                        It does come down to equal protection. If the Constitution doesn't mean it, it shouldn't be in there. If it doesn't mean we have equal protection, saying we do is a lie. The Constitution would need to be modified to read, Members of preferred churches have full rights, people disapproved of by members of the preferred churches have whatever rights the people of the preferred churches chose to give them amen. If its the truth, say it. Otherwise quit lying. You will not find many people willing to lay down their lives, or even waste 10 minutes of their lives, defending a Constitution like that. And why should people who are excluded from equal protection have to pay taxes to support the system that discriminates against them? Isn't it ironic that the churches which aren't even supposed to be mucking around in politics as a condition of their tax exemption, get to both muck around in politics and pay no taxes while the victims of their bullying bigotry get to pay taxes? And what IS the difference between religion and superstition? Why subsidize superstition with tax exemptions?

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                        • Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                          hi i just recentlyspoke to my eldest sis and i learned where she reside's.

                          she shared with me that same gender's can only live with one another and not have matrimony and she my eldest sis agree's it wouldnt be to nice if they had same gender marriage's here is it wouldnt be good for the people here who oppose it.

                          my eldest sis shared with me that when she married,she only believe's in traditional marriage. my second sis also believe's this and my eldest sis shared with me that even where she reside's,when they only have couple's only living together without marriage,the childern are somewhat unable to say who they would call mom and dad and it wouldnt be mom and mom or dad and dad.

                          well thank's for your time

                          Comment


                          • Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                            sansei: I think most people would not like "traditional" marriage. If you go back to the Old Testament, traditional marriage would include polygamy. If you go back in history, traditional marriage would include women being the property of men and not being able to own their own property or decide to leave the marriage even if they were being abused and would include men having the right to abuse their wives or even kill them. Traditional marriage would include women being sold into marriage or being forced into marriage by their fathers or by their male guardian to secure alliances between the families or for the bride price.

                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_price

                            and if by "traditional" you mean existing long ago, then traditional marriage also included same sex marriage long before Christianity in places like the Roman Empire, Greece and China. I'm not saying it was ever as frequent as a marriage between one man and one woman but same sex marriages existed.

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                            • Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                              hi,im only sharing that in my grandparent's and parent's and two sis's time that's how i learned from my deceased father about traditional marriage and i firmly believe in this since in my youth,i was taught this and not going back to the old testament,i do realize in the old testament that it was those day's of what you shared,im only sharing what i learned from my deceased father in my youth.

                              my deceased father also shared with me to trust people in family or good friend's and not to many other's since of when he was in ww2 and he was on furlough in korea that someone stole his leather jacket that he so treasured so this is a reason i think of my deceased father's word's when he shared them with me.i meant no harm,my deepest apologies to everyone only when someone as i is taught by my deceased father about traditional marriage,i myself learned to believe his word.

                              well thank's for your time

                              Comment


                              • Re: Should Civil Unions Be Legalized?

                                sansei: I am not saying that you don't have a right to express your views or that you should apologize. We're just having a discussion here about different views.

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