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  • #16
    Re: Affirmative Action

    exactly.

    imo, it's not only a level educational field that's a prerequisite to abandoning affirmative action. we'd basically need a society that mirrors star trek's federation in terms of food, clothing, shelter & educational availability. in short, until we have a practically utopic society, we need affirmative action.

    yes, i know it's a "hand up" that's sometimes exploited but i think the benefits society as a whole receives for helping the disadvantaged outweighs the potential for abuse. many successful people of minority backgrounds would not have had the opportunity to make something of themselves w/o access to education that affirmative action likely gave them.
    superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

    "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

    nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

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    • #17
      Re: Affirmative Action

      Originally posted by cynsaligia View Post
      yes, i know it's a "hand up" that's sometimes exploited but i think the benefits society as a whole receives for helping the disadvantaged outweighs the potential for abuse. many successful people of minority backgrounds would not have had the opportunity to make something of themselves w/o access to education that affirmative action likely gave them.
      I agree with the above statement.
      High-lighted 'disadvantaged' and just wish to say that it could be anyone,
      not only non-caucasians.
      Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

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      • #18
        Re: Affirmative Action

        Originally posted by cynsaligia View Post
        what proportion of kids who go to farrington or campbell have the same access to a computer with high speed internet that you obviously do?
        Just FYI, the DOE announced last month that Farrington would be the recipient of $40 million worth of projects designed to modernize the school. And while we are talking about computers and the internet, it is worth noting that Dole Middle School (one of Farrington's feeder schools) was the site of a pilot project that made it the first public school in the entire state to have every classroom networked and wired for internet. This was back in the mid-1990s, so they had internet/cable TV connectivity in every room, even before schools like Niu Valley, Kalani, or Moanalua.
        This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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        • #19
          Re: Affirmative Action

          Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
          Just FYI, the DOE announced last month that Farrington would be the recipient of $40 million worth of projects designed to modernize the school. And while we are talking about computers and the internet, it is worth noting that Dole Middle School (one of Farrington's feeder schools) was the site of a pilot project that made it the first public school in the entire state to have every classroom networked and wired for internet. This was back in the mid-1990s, so they had internet/cable TV connectivity in every room, even before schools like Niu Valley, Kalani, or Moanalua.

          But those are schools on Oahu. What about the neighbor island schools? Schools on Molokai, Lanai, or even Kauai? Despite our centralized school system, there are still claims that the smaller neighbor islands get short shrift. This is not to denigrate the dedicated teachers there, but if it is so, it's most likely from the lack of resources allocated there.

          eta: Also, I agree with Cyn that affirmative action is broader than just the educational field.
          Last edited by Adri; March 29, 2008, 07:04 PM.

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          • #20
            Re: Affirmative Action

            Originally posted by Adri View Post
            This is not to denigrate the dedicated teachers there, but if it is so, it's most likely from the lack of resources allocated there.
            That's true. They have to work with what they have on hand, not what they can ask for, which despite being just a canoe paddle distance away, stuff takes a long time to reach places like Moloka'i. Some teachers are resourceful, while others ... well, you can see them almost cracking which is not good when students (both good and bad) can "smell" it.

            Add in the factors of teachers opting to leave the state for better paying job with better access to teaching tools. I don't think we should ask ourselves, "are we giving the children enough?" but rather "are we giving them more?"
            Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

            Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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            • #21
              Re: Affirmative Action

              Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
              Just FYI, the DOE announced last month that Farrington would be the recipient of $40 million worth of projects designed to modernize the school. And while we are talking about computers and the internet, it is worth noting that Dole Middle School (one of Farrington's feeder schools) was the site of a pilot project that made it the first public school in the entire state to have every classroom networked and wired for internet. This was back in the mid-1990s, so they had internet/cable TV connectivity in every room, even before schools like Niu Valley, Kalani, or Moanalua.

              hey what about Hokulani Elementary School by UH? When I was on the school's PTSA board, we networked all the classrooms thru fundraising and donated time from parents and businesses. This was back in the early 90's as well.
              Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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              • #22
                Re: Affirmative Action

                Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                Just FYI, the DOE announced last month that Farrington would be the recipient of $40 million worth of projects designed to modernize the school. And while we are talking about computers and the internet, it is worth noting that Dole Middle School (one of Farrington's feeder schools) was the site of a pilot project that made it the first public school in the entire state to have every classroom networked and wired for internet. This was back in the mid-1990s, so they had internet/cable TV connectivity in every room, even before schools like Niu Valley, Kalani, or Moanalua.
                i am truly happy to hear that. i just wish that like practically all the students at niu valley, kalani, or moanalua (i'll add kaiser to that mix as well), practically all the students at farrington and campbell or the like also have access at home. computer/internet access at school is a great start at leveling the field. but it's only a start. i had relatively easy computer access in high school, but i was at a disadvantage bcs while my wealthier classmates had computers with Word or WordPerfect and AOL at home, i was lucky we could afford an electric typewriter.
                superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

                "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

                nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Affirmative Action

                  Originally posted by cynsaligia View Post
                  i had relatively easy computer access in high school, but i was at a disadvantage bcs while my wealthier classmates had computers with Word or WordPerfect and AOL at home, i was lucky we could afford an electric typewriter.
                  Sheez, we had to build our own computer at Kalani then learn how to program the stupid thing, and we didn't even have a monitor or keyboard to see what we were doing, only eight blinking lights, eight toggle switches and one "enter" pushbutton. As a matter of fact back in 1978 Kalani High school had only that one Altair 8800 computer.

                  And to write with we had to burn tree twigs into charcoal so we had something to write with...okay I'm exaggerating a bit
                  Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Affirmative Action

                    Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
                    hey what about Hokulani Elementary School by UH? When I was on the school's PTSA board, we networked all the classrooms thru fundraising and donated time from parents and businesses. This was back in the early 90's as well.
                    I don't know the exact time frame was of exactly which school *finished* up wiring all the classrooms first, but you said something which differentiates between the two. You say Hokulani's wiring was done thru fundraising and donated time from parents and businesses. As I said, Dole's project was a state pilot project and was carried out with DOE funding and labor. And it was Dole that was used by the state as a model for other schools to follow.
                    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Affirmative Action

                      I believe that the day will come when AA will tweak from race to socio-economic/classist need. As long as this country chooses to maintain its advanced and enlightened self, there will remain the advocacy for, and application of that adage that a rising tide raises all boats. The day we choose otherwise is when we begin to turn into a Southeast Asian country (no personal income taxes! no welfare! Orphanages&shit are privately funded! Be all the merchant you can be, and your government is bare bones, with the exception of a sound military regime! Its a libertarian's wet dream!)

                      pax

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                      • #26
                        Re: Affirmative Action

                        Originally posted by Pua'i Mana'o View Post
                        I believe that the day will come when AA will tweak from race to socio-economic/classist need. As long as this country chooses to maintain its advanced and enlightened self, there will remain the advocacy for, and application of that adage that a rising tide raises all boats. The day we choose otherwise is when we begin to turn into a Southeast Asian country (no personal income taxes! no welfare! Orphanages&shit are privately funded! Be all the merchant you can be, and your government is bare bones, with the exception of a sound military regime! Its a libertarian's wet dream!)
                        I agree with your sentiments and wonder if we are at the point where we can look at shifting to the socio-economic model rather than a race model.

                        One question though, what SE Asian country/ies are you referring to as "a libertarian's wet dream!"?

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                        • #27
                          Re: Affirmative Action

                          those points are the biggies of the "anti-nanny-state folk", but these are the practices of SEA countries such as Myanmar, Bangladesh, Laos (although countries like Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand do charge personal and corporate taxes, though no real social welfare programs). My point being that nobody *likes* paying taxes, but countries with complex tax systems offer their populaces amenities and comforts conducive to a civilized society.

                          As for the former question of "are we there yet" wrt AA, I am really hopeful that we are on our way. I am very grateful for the lily pads that were put in place to help me find my way across the pond, and to be completely frank, I consider those pads put there for the generations before me, allowing me to even be born above mud-level…taxes paid to bring roads and infrastructures into places that allowed my forefolks the opportunities to eek out their livelihoods (while truly considering themselves "self-made"…as if these elements don't factor into the overall picture). AA is just another cog in the greater machine that makes the GDP.

                          pax

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