Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 9

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall

    Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    I guess I'm going to have to offer the discordant voice in this thread by placing the blame for this fiasco, not on the environmentalists (everybody's favorite scapegoat), but on Gov. Lingle's administration. Remember, they were the ones who bypassed the normal environmental review process in order to fast-track the Superferry. It was acting upon the shoddy recommendation of her legal advisors that the governor has got the Superferry and the state into this huge mess.
    Agreed. Any violation of due process, whether we agree with the outcome or not, is a step backward for our society. I hope the environmental factors will be seriously reviewed.

    Thanks for the Nation link, TuNnL!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall

      Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
      Amen to that! Superferry “fans” seem to forget that if the company had followed environmental regulations in the first place, they wouldn’t be in this mess now. It’s only because they pressured the state to make a special exception for their ‘special’ company. For what? So they could test their JHSV (Joint High Speed Vessel) on unsuspecting Hawai‘i residents? Let’s dispense with the shibai here. The Superferry is a military prototype vessel designed to transport Striker Brigade vehicles. The Nation calls the people running Superferry a “mini-Pentagon.” The “inter-island” ferry service is just a sham designed to build up enough hours of use on the Superferry to prove that it is seaworthy enough for the feds to buy into it. Anyone who believes otherwise is ignorant and naïve.
      This is Gospel.
      Twitter: LookMaICanWrite


      flickr

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall

        Originally posted by mel View Post
        KFVE 6:30 news just reported that Hawaii Superferry will shut down after Thursday.

        I have absolutely no respect for any environmental wackos and opponents of the Hawaii Superferry. They have done a great disservice to the traveling public by taking away a viable, affordable and new travel option between the islands.

        This once again sends out a message that Hawaii is a very hostile place to do business. If anyone from any large firm wants to launch a private passenger sea transportation option, do it anywhere else except in Hawaii. The environmental wackos want to crucify you. No one or no firm has deep pockets to keep any business afloat forever in this kind of hostile business climate.
        Aww c'mon Mel, I have respect for you. For the record I was one of the enviros working on this issue from the very get go, back before Gov. Lingle made the illegal exemptions. I personally like the concept of the Superferry and wanted them to succeed. What I didn't like was the fact that they wanted to flout our laws, and believe me HEPA was put in for very good reasons. I didn't like the fact that they tried to (and sometimes succeeded in) bribe our public officials with campaign contributions to get their way. Superferry shot itself in the foot. If they had just done the EIS like every other business is required to do with projects of this magnitude this situation simply would not have happened. The enviros (tho probably not the Native Haw'n groups) were for the most part neutral to favorable regarding the Superferry up until they basically told us "We don't CARE what your law says, our MONEY says more."

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall

          The difference between a refinery, quarry, landfill and a ship is that you can easily shut down the ship and not leave a permanent scar on the environment. You can't do that with the other three.

          So while it's important to adhere to rules regarding a EIS, a common-sense approach would be to allow the Superferry to operate while the EIS mess is straightened out.

          After 11 months of operation any obvious and serious problems would have surfaced. Yet the Superferry has proven to be as environmentally safe as any other vessel of its size plying our waters.

          The Superferry uses less fuel per passenger and per pound of freight than any aircraft, and it outputs its emissions at lower altitudes as well. For anyone interested I'll gladly supply the math. And the Superferry doesn't require noise abatement procedures, unlike any interisland airline.

          And the other arguments still apply: carrying vehicles aboard the Superferry has less environmental impact than the much larger number of vehicles carried aboard the interisland barges.

          Environmentalists pride themselves on taking the long view of things. However in this case they've been horrendously short-sighted and narrow-minded. They've lost sight of the actual potential environmental impact of this ship compared to everything else that's already in operation. They failed to comprehend the broader picture of everything that's out there.

          A vocal few have managed to bring a valuable service to its knees. I hope they're proud of that and can somehow find it within themselves to provide employment for the people who will suddenly find themselves without jobs in this very difficult time.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall

            Ever since seeing the super ferrys in Asia, I've thot we needed them here, if for no other reason than hurricane/tsunami/disater expidited relief. But watching Lingle's typical 'worst example' of republicanism deceit and deception all along in the manner had me against it's success until all the cards were on the table, most importantly, the one stated by TunlL, as a military deployment vehicle. They all lied about it not being so.
            This is all Lingle's wrong doing and will probably be her legacy headstone.
            We can start now in writing Lingle's legacy, and it ain't gonna be good.

            Indeed, thank you Sierra Club, and Kauai protesters! You did what was sadly a neccessity under the circumstances. Maybe under an Abercrombie admin., we can get it reinstated in a truthful, proper, and better manner. We need it!
            https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall

              Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
              Ever since seeing the super ferrys in Asia, I've thot we needed them here, if for no other reason than hurricane/tsunami/disater expidited relief. But watching Lingle's typical 'worst example' of republicanism deceit and deception all along in the manner had me against it's success until all the cards were on the table, most importantly, the one stated by TunlL, as a military deployment vehicle. They all lied about it not being so.
              This is all Lingle's wrong doing and will probably be her legacy headstone.
              We can start now in writing Lingle's legacy, and it ain't gonna be good.

              Indeed, thank you Sierra Club, and Kauai protesters! You did what was sadly a neccessity under the circumstances. Maybe under an Abercrombie admin., we can get it reinstated in a truthful, proper, and better manner. We need it!
              Everyone blames the Kauai protestors for "spoiling" it for everyone, but you know what? How can you be mad at a group of people who were intelligent enough to organize themselves and get their message across? I don't see any sort of organization on this level by supporters of the HSF. Just a bunch of bickering fingerpointers.
              Twitter: LookMaICanWrite


              flickr

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall

                Originally posted by Composite 2992 View Post
                So while it's important to adhere to rules regarding a EIS, a common-sense approach would be to allow the Superferry to operate while the EIS mess is straightened out.
                I think that most of your points are entirely valid, and as I said above the concept of the Superferry is one that I and many other people support. However, allowing the Superferry to operate illegally perpetuates illegalities that have been a part of Superferry from the get-go. Environmental laws only work when they are followed. There is a process for exemption to HEPA, Superferry decided to lie to the Governor and the people of Hawaii, which in turn caused the Governor in a fit of pro-business-at-all-costs fervor to illegally exempt Superferry. When the Governor and Superferry were caught and then brought to court over this illegal action, Superferry dumped a ton of cash into legislative campaign coffers (and the governor's) to buy themselves a special legislative session. Turns out Act 2 was ultimately found, with very rigorous legal reasoning, to be unconstitutional by the Hawaii Supreme Court. (http://www.state.hi.us/jud/opinions/sct/2009/29035.pdf Read it... all 113 pages of it) We are a people of laws and our laws draw their strength from our National and State Constitutions. It is not ok to simply ignore those laws whenever it seems convenient.

                At the heart of this is disrespect. The disrespect Superferry showed the people of Hawaii when they flouted our laws, the disrespect Gov. Lingle showed her constituents when she broke our laws, and cynicism of the Superferry in paying off our elected officials to buy a law. If you think that's ok then I have some land in the path of a lava flow I'd like to sell you, I think it won't get overrun but I'm not gonna pay a geologist to tell me for sure.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Are you possibly misreading my comment?

                  Originally posted by Mike_Lowery View Post
                  Everyone blames the Kauai protestors for "spoiling" it for everyone, but you know what? How can you be mad at a group of people who were intelligent enough to organize themselves and get their message across? I don't see any sort of organization on this level by supporters of the HSF. Just a bunch of bickering fingerpointers.
                  I have but one middle finger pointed, on each hand, and they are pointed at Lingle and Lehman.
                  https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall

                    Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                    For what? So they could test their JHSV (Joint High Speed Vessel) on unsuspecting Hawai‘i residents? Let’s dispense with the shibai here. The Superferry is a military prototype vessel designed to transport Striker Brigade vehicles. The Nation calls the people running Superferry a “mini-Pentagon.” The “inter-island” ferry service is just a sham designed to build up enough hours of use on the Superferry to prove that it is seaworthy enough for the feds to buy into it. Anyone who believes otherwise is ignorant and naïve.
                    So what? It's not the first time transportation systems have a civilian and miltary version. Look at the Boeing 707 jet and the Air Force KC-135, both are the same type of jet or a more current example is the Boeing 737/800 and the Navy's P-8. No one complained that 737 flying around Hawaiian skies would be one day used as miltary jets.

                    As far ships carrying the Styker, the Army has them now, how do you think the Stykers originally deployed at Schofield got here in the first place and then deployed to Iraq and then coming back to Hawaii?

                    Granted someone, somewhere down the road screwed up in not initially doing the EIS, yes they should have, since they had time to do it from the moment they wanted to do the project to the time when the vessel actually arrived in Hawaii.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall

                      There's just a lack of common sense and special interest here. If it was to uphold the law, punish the gov't that created the fiasco, not the company. Did the company pressure? Sure but ultimately, who caved in? And how long has SF been operating? Are we seriously being told, something on paper which have more validity then a real time, real life tracking record? If there is no 11th hour solution to this, Hawaii just screwed itself big time again.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall

                        The boat has been running for a year. What harm to the environment has it caused? None that I am aware of. But it has done tons of good by creating jobs, economic activity, increased tourism, allowed people an option to get themselves, their families, or their goods between the islands. And I don't see whale carcasses all over due to getting hit or spooked by the Superferry.

                        The military connotations? Whatever. Just one more thing that protesters can latch onto and complain about. A scare tactic, if you will. Wake up! Half our island is the playground of the US military, yet I don't see anyone out protesting Hickam or MCB Kaneohe.

                        So what if the origins of the approvals are questionable and shady and political. Hawaii has the shadiest politics of any state I've ever lived in. There was no environmental affectation. And that was the whole point behind having the Superferry do the EIS in the first place. Couldn't we just fine them, avoiding more unemployment in the process, and let them run their business, and help families, small businesses, and the economy.
                        ~ This is the strangest life I've ever known ~

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall

                          The EIS shouldn't have been skirted if it were fairly applied to all circumstances.

                          However, as Joshuatree said, 11 months of real-life experience has given everyone a very accurate picture of what the Superferry does and doesn't do. It's a much more accurate measurement of impact than any theoretical EIS could ever achieve.

                          If laws were broken, then fine the people and entities involved. But don't kill off an otherwise valuable service.

                          From the start I simply don't see how adding another shipping service should have required an EIS in the first place. How is adding another ship to our waters any worse than adding another airline to our skies, another barge to YB's fleet or another bus to OTS?

                          The Superferry doesn't go any faster than some of the Navy ships and subs that have gone into and out of Pearl Harbor for the past 60 years. It's the same speed as TheBoat on a good day. It's smaller than any of the cruise ships that come into and out of Honolulu Harbor. It is more fuel efficient for net passenger/cargo weight than any airline. And it moves just a mere fraction of vehicles and freight that might harbor invasive species than YB barges.

                          So why is the Superferry being singled out as the bad guy?

                          The point isn't that the EIS was skirted. The point is that an EIS was even required. And the DLNR even placed restrictions on coolers aboard the Superferry carrying certain harvested marine species that don't apply to coolers carried by the airlines. That's even more suspicious than the Superferry and Lingle sidestepping the EIS issue.

                          It certainly reeks of a conspiracy to keep the Superferry out of the islands. Has nothing to do with the environmental impact. But it has a lot to do with preventing a good business from engaging in fair competition.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall

                            link :

                            "Act 2 required the DOT to perform an EIS but allowed short cuts from the kind of review set forth under Chapter 343, the state's environmental review law. Yesterday's court ruling likely means the DOT will have to perform a full-blown EIS."
                            Check out my blog on Kona issues :
                            The Kona Blog

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall

                              Originally posted by Jewlipino View Post
                              We are a people of laws and our laws draw their strength from our National and State Constitutions. It is not ok to simply ignore those laws whenever it seems convenient.
                              You said it best. It's a very slippery slope our society is treading upon when the attitude of "the ends justifies the means" is allowed to prevail.
                              This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 9

                                Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                                Superferry “fans” seem to forget that if the company had followed environmental regulations in the first place, they wouldn’t be in this mess now. It’s only because they pressured the state to make a special exception for their ‘special’ company. For what? So they could test their JHSV (Joint High Speed Vessel) on unsuspecting Hawai‘i residents? Let’s dispense with the shibai here. The Superferry is a military prototype vessel designed to transport Striker Brigade vehicles. The Nation calls the people running Superferry a “mini-Pentagon.” The “inter-island” ferry service is just a sham designed to build up enough hours of use on the Superferry to prove that it is seaworthy enough for the feds to buy into it. Anyone who believes otherwise is ignorant and naïve.
                                Originally posted by helen View Post
                                So what? It's not the first time transportation systems have a civilian and miltary version.
                                No kidding! The point wasn’t precedence, it was the fact that Superferry officials to this day have refused to make this fact public! Duh.

                                Originally posted by helen View Post
                                Granted someone, somewhere down the road screwed up in not initially doing the EIS, yes they should have, since they had time to do it from the moment they wanted to do the project to the time when the vessel actually arrived in Hawaii.
                                You say that like it was an accident or oversight. Clearly, if you have been keeping up with the news, you would know this was a deliberate action born of concession by the Lingle Administration.

                                We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

                                — U.S. President Bill Clinton
                                USA TODAY, page 2A
                                11 March 1993

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X