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Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 9

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  • #76
    Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 9

    I don't think Sierra Club has an agenda beyond the EIS... but they might.

    As for conspiracies, since I've been having fun with adages and know the ineptness of govt and business through personal and professional experience I submit to you Hanlon's Razor:

    "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

    When it comes to HSF it really looks like the people running the show were used to getting their way by any means necessary, and miscalculated how much support the enviros and native hawaiian groups could muster in the face of that. Once they had committed to that course of action, instead of apologizing and agreeing to do the EIS they took the advice of their lawyers who prolly said something along the lines of "the issue is murky enough, we think we have a case and the backing of the governor, so push forward." So bad strategy, probably bad advice, bad handling of the situation after the Kaua'i incident. Simply put, stupid.

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    • #77
      Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 9

      Originally posted by Jewlipino View Post
      I don't think Sierra Club has an agenda beyond the EIS... but they might.
      If not the Sierra Club, there are surely others who will carry on their battle to stop the HSF. But as you point out, you can't paint the various parties involved on this particular EIS debate with a broad brush. When you do, it's hard (if not downright impossible) to have a thoughtful and constructive dialogue on the matter when someone goes in with the attitude of you "either support the Superferry 100% or not at all. There is no gray area." Operating on this kind of "take it or leave it" proposition leaves no room for negotiation and compromise.

      Originally posted by Jewlipino View Post
      When it comes to HSF it really looks like the people running the show were used to getting their way by any means necessary, and miscalculated how much support the enviros and native hawaiian groups could muster in the face of that..
      Oh, it wouldn't be the first time that's happened. Remember that the combined efforts of the latter held up completion of the H-3 for more than 30 years. But in that case, it was the activists directly taking on the state. The state, unfortunately, wasn't going anywhere. Eventually, all of the legal challenges and appeals ran out and the freeway was built.

      The Superferry is obviously another matter. In this case, time is the enemy of the state administration in its effort to keep the HSF afloat.
      This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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      • #78
        Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 9

        Originally posted by mel View Post
        People either support the Superferry 100% or not at all. There is no gray area.
        Not even the least bit true. Some of us have a mix of feelings about the issue, something that I guess was not evident from my posts here.
        Originally posted by mel View Post
        I'm done with this thread. Go on and continue your Superferry bashing discussion.
        These threads might be worth staying with if people could stay away from the bashing of each other; there's a hell of a lot of it on HT, which diminishes (imo) the value of the information and opinion being presented by all sides. I thank those here who have not sunk to that level.

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        • #79
          Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 9

          According to Perry and Price it is the Maui Tomorrow and Kahalui Harbor Coalition that is doing all the damage. Who the hell are they? Supposedly they are backed by mainland and transplanted people (from the mainland) funds.

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          • #80
            Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 9

            Originally posted by speedtek View Post
            According to Perry and Price it is the Maui Tomorrow and Kahalui Harbor Coalition that is doing all the damage. Who the hell are they? Supposedly they are backed by mainland and transplanted people (from the mainland) funds.
            Those two groups were teamed with the Sierra Club in lawsuits to try to stop the SuperFerry several years ago. They both have websites that don't appear to have been updated for some time. I wonder where P+P get the Mainland connection that they are implying? Or if that's just sensationalist b.s.-ing? Anybody got any links or data to back up those claims?

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            • #81
              Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 9

              Originally posted by mel View Post
              People either support the Superferry 100% or not at all. There is no gray area. I'm done with this thread. Go on and continue your Superferry bashing discussion.
              I agree with ya, Mel!!
              Last edited by helen; March 19, 2009, 04:24 PM. Reason: fixing the quote tag
              ~ This is the strangest life I've ever known ~

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              • #82
                Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 9

                Originally posted by speedtek View Post
                According to Perry and Price it is the Maui Tomorrow and Kahalui Harbor Coalition that is doing all the damage. Who the hell are they? Supposedly they are backed by mainland and transplanted people (from the mainland) funds.
                "I only funny you", but true. Somehow (EIS) for the Superferry only. Never mind NCL, Carnival, QEII, or other companies sailing between our Islands.
                bin dea-dunn dat.

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                • #83
                  Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 9

                  Neighbor island residents appreciate the higher prices for imported goods. You can see the difference in prices from the advertisement by comparing the Oahu paper against a neighbor island paper with stores such as Longs, Foodland, and Star Market.

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                  • #84
                    Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 9

                    Originally posted by helen View Post
                    According to the Star Bulletin, the shutdown of the SuperFerry is for the short term, which might mean between now and June, which I think is when the EIS should be finished.
                    I haven't paid close attention, but I'm hearing some talk that the existing EIS may not be sufficient and they'll have to start all over again. I'm not sure what the deal is with that.


                    Originally posted by helen View Post
                    I suspect that once the EIS is done, the Sierra Club should not be factor in this, unless they find some other administrative stuff relating to the enivornment that got overlooked.
                    Maybe. Maybe not. I'm sure some envro-mental group will still protest. And I wouldn't be too surprised if someone came up with something they thought not right. If nothing else challenge the conclusions of the EIS.

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                    • #85
                      Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 9

                      Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                      I wonder where P+P get the Mainland connection that they are implying? Or if that's just sensationalist b.s.-ing? Anybody got any links or data to back up those claims?
                      Links no. Best I can remember is some things they've said in the past. At one time they had a list of people for one of the groups. They read the names. The ethnicity of the last names was quite different then what we're used to for a "local" group.

                      Then there was some "warrior" guy who had emailed them about this "pilau business". Some follow up showed that it was most likely a underaged kid whose family either recently came from the mainland or routinely traveled there.

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                      • #86
                        Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 9

                        Originally posted by mel View Post
                        People either support the Superferry 100% or not at all. There is no gray area. I'm done with this thread. Go on and continue your Superferry bashing discussion. More than likely by tomorrow it will all be over completely except for the blame, which will continue forever.
                        What an arbitrary and juvenile comment; we don't live in a black and white only world.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 9

                          Originally posted by Composite 2992 View Post
                          Executive Order 9066 was a law, too. Didn't make it right.
                          Originally posted by surlygirly View Post
                          Again, it's easy to have all the answers when you're sitting comfy. And who's talking about turning all of Hawaii into a concrete jungle? This is ONE case, ONE particular instance. Stay with this instance.
                          How is that more preposterous than comparing the adhering to the EIS requirement to legitimizing executive order 9066?

                          Originally posted by Keanu View Post
                          What an arbitrary and juvenile comment; we don't live in a black and white only world.
                          "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

                          Disclaimer: I don't believe anyone on these forums is a Sith Lord!

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                          • #88
                            Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 9

                            Originally posted by Walkoff Balk View Post
                            Neighbor island residents appreciate the higher prices for imported goods. You can see the difference in prices from the advertisement by comparing the Oahu paper against a neighbor island paper with stores such as Longs, Foodland, and Star Market.
                            "oh no we DON`T", we have no choice but to pay higher prices...
                            SHIPPING COST,remember.
                            bin dea-dunn dat.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 9

                              Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
                              At one time they had a list of people for one of the groups. They read the names. The ethnicity of the last names was quite different then what we're used to for a "local" group.
                              That's a pretty flaky way to determine "local"-ness. Examples from my own circle of friends include people with the last names of Fern, Hayes, Miles and McMillan. Those don't sound particularly local, do they? But all of them are Kamehameha grads, with Hawaiian bloodlines.

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                              • #90
                                Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 9

                                Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                                That's a pretty flaky way to determine "local"-ness. Examples from my own circle of friends include people with the last names of Fern, Hayes, Miles and McMillan. Those don't sound particularly local, do they? But all of them are Kamehameha grads, with Hawaiian bloodlines.
                                Your point is completely sound and accurate. Here's one from my world of long ago. My last name was "Williams" but we are full blooded Native American.
                                When the Episcopalian missionaries came to the reservations long long ago
                                they changed everyone's names to theirs. Our real name was Konadalow
                                which means bread (to sustain life).

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