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Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

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  • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

    Originally posted by ericncyn View Post
    nope.

    ...and back you go to your usual modus operandi of taking a thread of truth and weaving it into a tapestry of crap.
    Gaaaaannn Fannit. I thought you was moah smat.

    Nevah mind.

    Comment


    • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

      Originally posted by helen View Post
      The commute times between islands via boat would make that prospect impractical.

      So the real underling issue is having a service that allows a person with a car to travel between the islands. Is that your fear? Commuting between the islands is basically a bad idea?

      The reason I bring this up is that even though the SuperFerry fails and leaves the state what is to prevent another company to offer the same kind of service? And this time they avoid the mistakes that the SuperFerry did. Do the EA/EIS before starting service, travel at a slower speed like 12 to 15 mph that way they can avoid the whales, make the cruise an overnight experience, be really careful with screening of incoming passengers making sure no invasive stuff comes through. And the real kicker is all the harbor improvements have been done already.
      I think you hit the nail on the head, Helen. Very few people oppose the concept but many do oppose this particular entity and the way the situation developed. The need has been expressed by many people in Hawai'i for this alternative mode of transportation. If the playing field was levelled and end runs like what happened with HSF were not allowed to occur, I have no doubt that another entity would want to try to set up a ferry service in Hawai'i. And who knows? Maybe there will even be a LOCAL company that sets up a ferry line? I have a feeling that the EA that will be done for all commercial harbors is going to generate EISs as well.

      For Maui, I really think building a brand new pier away from all the congestion in the current harbor would be the best solution. There is land on the west side of the harbor (Joshuatree and I discussed this here a long time ago) that could be developed. But it would take a significant bit of money to dredge that part of the harbor and build the facilities for the cruise ships and a ferry line. But at least the solution would be available for a future partner rather than one that is hastily thrown together and that satisfies no one.

      Miulang
      "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

      Comment


      • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

        Originally posted by Konaguy View Post
        It boils down to sustainability. As it stands now there is glut of jobs on most of the islands. But they are all in unsustainable industries.

        We need to clean up our business climate here to attract more sustainable industries. Currently it seems investors need to confer with tree huggers
        before they invest a dime here.
        Amen to that.

        I asked decades ago;

        Where is the world class convention center??? Took until what 1993? and the dummies put it outside Waikiki so tourists need transportation.

        Where is the Cruise industry. I wondered that way before NCL. Hawaii should be one of the premier cruise destinations in the world and yet nothing happened until recent.

        Where is the public fish markets? Finally Oahu has one.

        Where is the world class aquariums? This is Hawaii! Waikiki is nice but not world class.

        Where is the space port? Hawaiis location near the equator gives rockets an extra boost into orbit and the ocean provides a safety zone.

        Where is the high tech and bio tech? Clean, green and high pay?

        Where is the Hawaii Peace center? Similar to the East West Center but dedicated to getting leaders of waring nations to meet. Like Camp David in Hawaii. How could anyone continue to plot wars when meeting on some beach front estate in Hawaii.


        I could go on and on.

        Comment


        • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

          Originally posted by helen View Post
          And the real kicker is all the harbor improvements have been done already.
          When I look at the ugly supperferries' ramp in Nawiliwili and the pre-existing soccerfield-size paved and 8 foot high cyclone fence enclosed staging area the superferries have appropriated, compliments Hawaii DoT, for their exclusive use, I almost always wonder where in the world the alleged $40 million went.

          The superferries' Nawiliwili ramp was the only substancial physical "improvement" made with the State's $40million at Nawiliwili harbor. The ramp was made in China somewheres, shipped to Nawilwili on a barge and set up by a honolulu construction crew specialized in harbor operations, flying in for the weekend to install the ramp. I am most certain that, in a pinch, the same crew could take the same ramp down in a day and the ramp would be out of the harbor headed for a new buyer someheres else before morning.

          Comment


          • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

            Originally posted by ericncyn View Post
            never once did we feel unwelcome or unwanted. that's why i'm so saddened at all the anti-oahuan vitriol some neighbor island folk have spouted..
            Try to put yourself in our place. Sure we're at the same table: while you're sitting at the table salivating with anticipation of a hearty meal, we're in your plate.

            Comment


            • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

              Originally posted by craig foo View Post
              Try to put yourself in our place. Sure we're at the same table: while you're sitting at the table salivating with anticipation of a hearty meal, we're in your plate.
              I'll put it dis way..."Come on my plate and I'll BITE Ya!"

              Auntie Lynn
              Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
              Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

              Comment


              • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                Uh oh...looks the the Gov. is preparing her unified command on Kaua'i to go beyond mano a mano with the protestors on Kaua'i. Ian Lind's blog posted this very interesting little requisition from the DOT Harbors Div. for all kinds of riot gear. The req was dated 9-18-2007 and was for "helmets, face shields, body shields, protective body equipment, protective gas mask, etc."

                Combine this with pictures of a lot of CG zodiacs being hidden behind a bunch of cargo containers at Nawiliwili Harbor and it sounds more like the Gov. is planning for a riot like the one that disrupted Seattle during the WTC meeting a few years ago. Miulang
                How likely is it that Lingle's Unified Command, and those whose interest$ the Lingle Command is reinforcing, would prepare for "a riot" then be content not to have provoked one, if not initiate one?

                Comment


                • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                  Originally posted by craig foo View Post
                  How likely is it that Lingle's Unified Command, and those whose interest$ the Lingle Command is reinforcing, would prepare for "a riot" then be content not to have provoked one, if not initiate one?
                  Then I think there would have been a bloodbath similar to the one in Seattle in 1997 and more than a few "martyrs" for the cause.

                  Now if the Legislature overturns the court rulings, even the Maui groups are saying there's no guarantee that the next arrival of HSF in Kahului will be as peaceful as the first one was. Maybe the Gov. needs another req for more riot gear to send to Maui, too.

                  Miulang
                  "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                  Comment


                  • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                    Originally posted by craig foo View Post
                    Try to put yourself in our place. Sure we're at the same table: while you're sitting at the table salivating with anticipation of a hearty meal, we're in your plate.
                    based on what we experienced, not only while we were on our trip, but in speaking to others currently on and formerly from the neighbor islands, the "we" whom you describe does not encompass anywhere near as many folks as you would like.
                    superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

                    "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

                    nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

                    Comment


                    • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                      Wonnaful. But we still don't make YB stop shipping when we're doing an ES. We still don't stop planes from flying when we do an ES on the parking structure.

                      Hey, those planes will be able to carry more passengers on more flights if we have more parking. They fly directly over Ke'ehi Lagoon, home to Hawaiian water birds. There could be an impact there if we keep flying. Why not shut the airline down while we study the problem?

                      Not equal treatment. Not fair. Not pono.



                      Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                      Blaine: YB and the airport have both had EA/EIS done for some projects and not for others. This has already been shown in news stories. Both YB and the county airports were in service well before 1973 when the first HEPA laws were enacted. Since 1973, both entities have had EAs done on some improvements and not on others. The ones that didn't get the EAs were exempted by the DOT through their set of exemptions (each department of the State has a list of exemptions they can use). DOT tried to sneak HSF through using the same exemption, but the HSC said that that judgment was faulty because the DOT did not take into account what the potential secondary impacts of a minor modification to Kahului Harbor would be.
                      Make trouble, have fun, do good stuffs.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by zztype View Post
                        Wonnaful. But we still don't make YB stop shipping when we're doing an ES. We still don't stop planes from flying when we do an ES on the parking structure.

                        Hey, those planes will be able to carry more passengers on more flights if we have more parking. They fly directly over Ke'ehi Lagoon, home to Hawaiian water birds. There could be an impact there if we keep flying. Why not shut the airline down while we study the problem?

                        Not equal treatment. Not fair. Not pono.
                        There is a difference in the function of YB and HSF. YB is a lifeline for the Neighbor Islands; HSF is convenience. That's the difference.

                        Miulang

                        Apparently not only did the DOT misinterpret the spirit of HRS343, but they have also violated an Shoreline Management permitting rule, too:

                        The State DOT- Harbors Division (DOT –H) apparently exempted the Superferry facility from the SMA permitting process, though the law gives them only final “approval” powers, not exclusion from Federal, State and county law.

                        Via email, Mike Formby, Deputy Director of the DOT-H Friday staked out the State’s right to ”plan, construct, operate, and maintain any commercial harbor facility... without the approval of county agencies” as stated in HRS 266-2(b)

                        No mention is made in the law regarding exemption from permitting processes

                        Formby also detailed the scheme under which the State undertook development of the Superferry Harbor Facilities, HRS 266-2(b) notwithstanding

                        “Under the Operating Agreement with HSF, DOT was unable to provide existing passenger facilities to HSF in the neighbor islands and allowed HSF to construct such facilities which were, by contract, subject to sharing agreements with other users since the facilities were public purpose facilities on non-exclusive use state piers.” Formby wrote. “While the Operating Agreement required HSF to comply with all laws, HSF proceeded with the construction, operation and maintenance of the facilities on state piers on behalf of DOT under HRS 266-2(b), meaning they would not require approval of county agencies.”

                        The law cited does not allow the state to pre-empt the SMA permitting process and only grants approval authority to the state, not authority over the permitting process. It does not exclude or exempt harbor projects from filing for and obtaining the federally mandated Shoreline Management Area (SMA) permit for the development of the Superferry facility in Nawiliwili Harbor and three other harbors in the state.


                        To forgo the SMA process entirely- which always includes public hearings and sometimes if obviated things like traffic studies and even environmental cultural and social impact studies- violates provisions of the Federal Coastal Zone Management Act (CZMA) which mandates the state-directed but county-processed SMA permitting processes described in Hawaii’s SMA law (HRS205) and the CZMA.
                        Miulang
                        "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ericncyn View Post
                          based on what we experienced, not only while we were on our trip, but in speaking to others currently on and formerly from the neighbor islands, the "we" whom you describe does not encompass anywhere near as many folks as you would like.
                          I don't know who you associate with on your trips. I am not just visiting where I am at, and certainly feel no compulsion to dissuade you of your vacations' perceptions..

                          Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                          There is a difference in the function of YB and HSF. YB is a lifeline for the Neighbor Islands; HSF is convenience. That's the difference.
                          Miulang
                          The Concord was touted for it's convenience but it wasn't allowed just wherever it chose.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                            Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                            There is a difference in the function of YB and HSF. YB is a lifeline for the Neighbor Islands; HSF is convenience. That's the difference.

                            Miulang
                            Oh yeah... forgot about Hawaiian and Aloha airlines, huh?
                            Make trouble, have fun, do good stuffs.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                              Originally posted by zztype View Post
                              Oh yeah... forgot about Hawaiian and Aloha airlines, huh?
                              They are a different beast, because they carry both people and cargo (like the US Mail). They are more similar to HSF in their purpose, but the issue isn't about airplanes, is it? And airplanes don't use the facilities at Kahului or Nawiliwili Harbor, either.

                              If you want to talk cruise ships, Matson, YB and HSF using the same "medium" (i.e., water, as opposed to air, and competing for scarce space in the harbor), then the cruise ships and HSF are conveniences, but YB and Matson are lifelines for the Neighbor Islands. If Hawai'i wasn't hampered by the Jones Act and if the Neighbor Island harbors had been upgraded to allow for more direct shipment of goods, then cargo could bypass Honolulu completely; Honolulu is the disbursement point for critical goods that are shipped to the Neighbor Islands. The Neighbor Islands ship Honolulu fresh food in return.

                              Miulang
                              Last edited by Miulang; October 10, 2007, 09:35 PM.
                              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                              Comment


                              • Re: Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 7

                                Originally posted by craig foo View Post
                                I don't know who you associate with on your trips. I am not just visiting where I am at, and certainly feel no compulsion to dissuade you of your vacations' perceptions..

                                whether on vacation or not, the people we know (some of whom count as relatives) who live on or are formerly from the neighbor islands (and there are many) are salt-of-the-earth, hard-working, republican, democrat, and independent; some serve or have served our country in the armed forces but all are lifetime if not generational hawaii residents who are law abiding, not inclined to sell, buy, or do drugs, steal copper, rape and pillage or otherwise lay waste to natural resources, are respectful and kind, would never dream of assaulting their neighbors or their neighbors' property, condemn anyone who would pound on a car, screaming expletives, when its inhabitants are peaceful and include children, love hawaii for all its beauties and its faults, and welcome the chance to make intra-island travel easier for a number of reasons, including, but not limited to, the fact that such travel would bring families spread out all over the state closer together in the same physical space more often.

                                you need not reply as to with what kind of people you associate.
                                superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

                                "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

                                nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

                                Comment

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