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The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

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  • #76
    Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

    I should just change my name to "Threadstopper."
    FutureNewsNetwork.com
    Energy answers are already here.

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    • #77
      Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

      Tim, fwiw, I agree with everything you had said about all sides of the coin and giving candidates a fair shake.

      pax

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      • #78
        Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

        From an AOL poll.

        Who would you choose for president in this head-to-head matchup?
        John McCain 53%
        Barack Obama 40%
        Neither/undecided 7%

        Total Votes: 254,563

        CNN and LA Times say that BO has a double digit lead. This poll says the opposite. What gives?
        FutureNewsNetwork.com
        Energy answers are already here.

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        • #79
          Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

          Originally posted by timkona View Post
          CNN and LA Times say that BO has a double digit lead. This poll says the opposite. What gives?
          Ummm...Tim? Polls are worthless crap in today's world. Anyone can get polls that represent whatever perspective they want them to reflect. You will also get very disparate responses when you compare "scientific" polls vs. "open" ones.

          Does anyone actually base their real vote on what a poll has said? Unless most people do, there's only one poll that will matter at all - and that doesn't take place until November 4.
          Last edited by Leo Lakio; June 25, 2008, 09:54 AM.

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          • #80
            Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

            Originally posted by timkona View Post
            CNN and LA Times say that BO has a double digit lead. This poll says the opposite. What gives?
            OMG Bradley Effect!

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            • #81
              Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

              Barack Obama shocked many critics today, by declaring that he supports the death penalty for individuals who rape children. His opinion goes against the U.S. Supreme Court which ruled that such a penalty is “cruel and unusual punishment” for the rapist.

              I would really like to shake Obama’s hand for dispelling the myth that he is a “left-leaning liberal” in every way! It’s great that he has taken a conservative position on the death penalty, which I think should be used on much more regular basis as a deterrent against crime.

              We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

              — U.S. President Bill Clinton
              USA TODAY, page 2A
              11 March 1993

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              • #82
                Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                I'll be voting for BO, but that statement of support for the death penalty, especially in this matter is totally absurd. The court managed to get another one right. What a rarity.
                https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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                • #83
                  Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                  Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                  Ummm...Tim? Polls are worthless crap in today's world.
                  It's a tired old cliche for the candidates and their surrogates. "This poll is 5 months away from the election. It's worthless." "Polls are nothing more than a snapshot in time."

                  But top-notch pollsters are worth their weight in gold to candidates and the parties. Failing to consider any kind of polling data when it comes to spending/advertising decisions would be disastrous for almost any campaign.
                  This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

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                  • #84
                    Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                    Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                    I'll be voting for BO, but that statement of support for the death penalty, especially in this matter is totally absurd. The court managed to get another one right.
                    I would really like to understand what you find so absurd about Barack Obama’s statement. He’s expressing a reasoned view that in the most heinous of child rape cases, prosecutors should be allowed to seek the death penalty. CBS News does an insightful report that explains why today’s Supreme Court decision is likely to weaken our laws across the board. Sad.

                    We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

                    — U.S. President Bill Clinton
                    USA TODAY, page 2A
                    11 March 1993

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                      Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                      He’s expressing a reasoned view that in the most heinous of child rape cases, prosecutors should be allowed to seek the death penalty. CBS News does an insightful report that explains why today’s Supreme Court decision is likely to weaken our laws across the board. Sad.
                      Let me pose this question to you. If a 17 year old boy is found guilty of raping a 13 year old girl, should the boy receive a death sentence?
                      This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                        Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                        Let me pose this question to you. If a 17 year old boy is found guilty of raping a 13 year old girl, should the boy receive a death sentence?
                        It’s impossible to answer the question you pose because you have provided none of the circumstances in your theoretical scenario. In any event, it would be irrelevant in this case (Kennedy vs. Louisiana) because the provision of the Louisiana law the Supreme Court struck down applied only to “children under the age of 13.”

                        If you read Obama’s statement, he specifically says the penalty should be available when the victim is “six or eight years old.” The Louisiana case that precipitated this ruling involved Patrick Kennedy, who raped his 8-year-old stepdaughter, then told her to lie about it to police. Investigators only discovered the truth after finding blood in the girl’s bedroom that Kennedy was trying to have removed. This young girl will likely live with feelings of guilt, betrayal, shame, disgust, denial, an extreme hatred for her father, and an inability to trust people — particularly men in authority positions — for the rest of her life. That’s if she doesn’t commit suicide as victims in these types of cases often do.

                        If the death penalty is available to prosecutors, it doesn’t necessarily mean that they will seek to use it in every child rape case. Maybe in the scenario you outlined, they might not. Again, it depends on the circumstances. In fact, many states, like Hawai‘i, do not allow the death penalty for any crimes. Of the states with the death penalty, less than a handful extended the penalty to child rape. The frequency of the crime historically has been low, experts say, because of the young victim’s fear of repercussions for reporting the crime, and the belief (often instilled by the perpetrator) that they are somehow to blame. Now that the Supreme Court has come out with very specific language that would seem to limit the death penalty to murder and attempted murder convictions, they’ve sent a very strong message: Child rapists, regardless of how many adolescent teens, young children, toddlers and infants they have assaulted, will always live to see another day.

                        We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

                        — U.S. President Bill Clinton
                        USA TODAY, page 2A
                        11 March 1993

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                          Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                          It’s impossible to answer the question you pose because you have provided none of the circumstances in your theoretical scenario.
                          Fine. Then just change the age of the girl in my scenario. I ask you again. Should a 17 year old boy receive the death sentence for raping an 11 year old girl?

                          And no, I'm not talking about a law whereby every offender in this situation gets the death sentence. Should any state in our country have the option of having a convicted rapist (who happens to be a minor) get a death sentence? Would you personally be okay with a minor being put on death row?

                          I'm not here to condemn or condone. I'm just curious what you think.
                          This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                            I used to support the death penalty, then Illinois discovered that a third of the people sentenced to death in their state were innocent of the charges they'd been convicted on. That is just a totally unsatisfactory failure rate. In Cal. a fellow had served 28 years for raping a child and evidence came up also proving him factually innocent. Think of the person you love most in the world and imagine that happening to him or her. Whoever it happens to is just as much a human being as your beloved. It is absolutely, totally unacceptable.

                            Beyond the problem of accuracy, the death penalty pushes the wrong buttons. It says very clearly that settling scores by killing people is OK. If the supreme authority, the state itself, kills people to settle with them, it sets an example of acceptable conduct. The way to show we do not approve of killing people is...to not kill them. It also stimulates that most dangerous animal instinct, blood lust, vengeance, killing for emotional satisfaction. This is why countries and states that do not have the death penalty have lower rates of violent crime than those that do. And finally, isn't the power of life and death just too much power to trust Big Government with? When has absolute power not been abused? Keep that power away from the bureaucrats and grand standing politicians and corrupt judges.

                            I admit that the death penalty has its emotional appeal. Thats the problem.

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                            • #89
                              Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                              I don't agree with State sactioned murder.
                              Overzealous/corrupt prosecutors, bad evidence and bad cops can set up an innocent person easily, and there's no reversing death.

                              Kalalau's post was right on!
                              https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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                              • #90
                                Re: The 2008 Presidential Elections - Chapter 3

                                I'm in the same arena as Ron & Kalalau. As I have stated in previous HT threads, I am against state-sanctioned killing in any circumstance, no matter how heinous and horrifying the crime.
                                Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                                But top-notch pollsters are worth their weight in gold to candidates and the parties.
                                Only because that's the old-school way of gathering data. The dynamic has already changed; people lie comfortably to pollsters, and use of the internet has changed the interaction with polling subjects.

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