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Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

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  • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

    Originally posted by Miulang View Post
    They aim to be nonviolent. Any violence is the result of the Coast Guard and their attempts to use boat hooks to snag the people in the water.
    More BULL.

    The Coast Guard was docile compared to the protesters throwing rocks and pounding on cars.

    So shame. Especially watching haoles on Kauai who probably lived here for all of five years talk like they know what is best for Hawaii and its residents.

    Comment


    • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

      Originally posted by Miulang View Post
      I was not attacking the Coast Guard; I was merely stating that they were using the boat hooks to try to fish the protesters out of the harbor and that the protestors could have gotten hurt because they were trying to avoid being snatched up; however, if they did get hurt it was because they were illegally trying to avoid being caught. Does that sound like I was attacking the Coast Guard, who was only trying to enforce a federal law?
      a federal law that was just recently and convieniently passed.

      Comment


      • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

        Originally posted by Star of Gladness View Post
        a federal law that was just recently and convieniently passed.
        No, it has been a law since right after 9/11. It's part of the DHS regs to keep us safe from terrorists. They impose the same restrictions on the passenger ferries up here, too. They aren't singling out HSF in this case.

        Miulang
        "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

        Comment


        • Re: USist mentality , Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

          Originally posted by waioli kai View Post
          If that is something other than sarcastic it could act as a matching bookend to Mel's comment.

          It has for generations been of USist mentality that "no one lives and dies by or with wholesome ethics: everyone has a price" for which they will bend over. Maybe those who refuse to bend over for corporatUSt$ should no longer deem themselves to be "Americans", but , in truth, those who are of and/or bend over for to please corporatists elitUSti$m are not Americans; instead, they are in league with global, the main benefactors of global, the concluding creators of global (ie, "global" only in the sense of sustaining) "Western" capitalUSi$m.
          Hmmm...I think your "S" key is malfunctioning...

          Are you saying that those who patronize or invest in American capitalism are really those who are not US citizens but merely foreigners who support capitalism?

          And if it's wrong to embrace capitalism...then what form of economy do you believe would work better? Socialism or do I dare say...Communism? It seems that the #1 Communist nation (China) loves to be the labor force behind most of the United States' Capitalist engine (Made in China) and China's protege (North Korea) can't seem to get it's economic engine kick started so they have to terrorize the free world with nuke development for the sake of feeding their citizens with US Grain. How ironic that Capitalism is the economic force driving China's Communistic ways and that Capitalism is feeding North Korea's hungry citizens because Communism cannot take care of their own.

          Is that what you meant by those who are bending over to please the capitalists are really the communists who contract cheap labor for the sake of localized economic growth or those who prostitute themselves by taking US Grain for food all the while denouncing the very economic engine that is feeding them?

          I'll buy that. But it seems then that capitalism is the way to go. Heck if China wants to build our Barbie Dolls and North Korea wants to eat our Calrose rice then what the heck we're one big happy family.

          Now back OT...I don't think a dozen or even a couple of hundred protesters reflect the views of the majority who want the SF to come to Maui or Kauai. I think residents of either island who book passage on SF will send the message to those who protest that their views are limited to their own paranoia as to the environmental impacts they feel will be the demise of their island.

          Protesting is one thing (hey it's their right) but to deny a ship to enter is another. Now we're talking lost revenue which in Tort language means "Damage" to the plaintiff which can be legally defended in a lawsuit.

          And remember...loser pays all. If you're an unemployed surfer or even an employed one, that's kala out of your pocket...who will defend them when it's time to cough up the bail, lawyer and court fees when they lose in court?
          Last edited by craigwatanabe; August 27, 2007, 11:16 PM.
          Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

          Comment


          • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

            Originally posted by Star of Gladness View Post
            There is a road to Hana if you haven't heard. About a one hour ride from Kahului is a poachers dream come true. They could easily rake in enough lobster to cover their full fare ticket on HSF.
            Uh, what's been keeping Maui poachers out? Or are you saying only Oahu has poachers? I find that hard to believe.

            Comment


            • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

              Originally posted by helen View Post
              Just do one (landing) to Kauai. Get there in the morning, wait for a few hours and then return to Oahu.
              A great idea. Give at least three hours for all on Kauai who protests superfascUSterry landings and deliveries at Nawiliwili Harbor to responsibly leave their work, getting substitute teachers if need be,,, to sail toward Nawiliwili to show that each single Kauai soul protesting against Lingle et. al superfascUSterrianism at Nawiliwili today represented the vast majority of the residents, voters and their allies who challenge this supposed "democracy".

              How much would an elections office officiated popular vote cost the counties of Maui and Kauai, their taxpayers (employed and unemployed)?

              What is so undemocratic about putting superfascUSterry dreams, plans , designs, when not outright corportUSt deceptions and corruptions, to a vote by the residents and their government as to whether or not superfascUSterry landings and deliveries are deemed to be good for the residents onto which such "good" is delivered.

              Certainly the cost$ of such a popular polling would be far less than even this one day's worth of US intergovernmental expenditures to protect when not otherwise project the reputations and legacies of today's corporatUSt$ Hawaii (esp Honolulu, of course) officialdoms and unofficialdoms.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by LikaNui View Post
                Shocking as it may seem, I agree with you. This is not a good sign.

                Do you know anything about anything? Manning the deck gun is SOP for the Coast Guard in any and every situation they encounter!
                And since your beloved protesters have already attacked innocent civilians, why shouldn't the Coasties be prepared to defend themselves, even if it wasn't SOP (which it is)?
                What a twit.
                its not their SOP's I challenge / its their use as crowd control against US Citizens. This violates Posse Comitatus act. Federal troops being used against US Citizens.

                How would the good citizens of Idaho react if the US Army were brought out to block protesters? Not the same! The people of Kaua'i have shown much restraint. I applaud their resolve and hope it remains non-violent.

                Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
                Uh, what's been keeping Maui poachers out? Or are you saying only Oahu has poachers? I find that hard to believe.
                This is why an EIS is needed. The ramifacations are permanent and need to be researched.

                Comment


                • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                  Originally posted by Star of Gladness View Post
                  its not their SOP's I challenge / its their use as crowd control against US Citizens. This violates Posse Comitatus act. Federal troops being used against US Citizens.

                  How would the good citizens of Idaho react if the US Army were brought out to block protesters? Not the same! The people of Kaua'i have shown much restraint. I applaud their resolve and hope it remains non-violent.
                  Well, the 3 people who were arrested on Sunday for obstructing the Alakai were arrested by the Kauai Police, not the Coast Guard. The Coast Guard was brought in to protect the boat, and they initially underestimated the tenacity of the protestors, too. They originally only had one boat to patrol the harbor, but there were so many people in the water, they had to call out 3 more Zodiacs to help.

                  BTW: During the college riots of the 60s, National Guardsmen were used for crowd control, and they carried loaded rifles (the song about "4 Dead in Ohio" is about one such incident).

                  Miulang
                  Last edited by Miulang; August 27, 2007, 11:28 PM.
                  "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                  Comment


                  • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                    Originally posted by Star of Gladness
                    This is why an EIS is needed. The ramifacations are permanent and need to be researched.
                    How does an EIS control poaching?

                    It's not hard for anyone to head over to any island and bring back a hundred pounds of opihi or a few dozen illegal lobster and Kona crab via the airlines. You don't need the Superferry to rape and pillage the reef on another island. TSA isn't going to check for those type of violations and most airline workers couldn't care less.

                    Anyone with a pilot's license can rent a Cessna 172 and bring back to Oahu a couple hundred pounds of anything completely undetected from Hana. You don't have to drive there.

                    The Superferry isn't going to be the preferred route for poachers or drug smugglers. In fact, there are lots of other methods that are far less likely to risk getting caught. Including any sport fishing boat. A 35-foot Bertram can go anywhere in the state and move a ton of material with ease.

                    If these protesters truly want to control invasive species or solve any of the potential problems they're attributing to the Superferry, then they really need to take a good look at the WHOLE PICTURE. The Superferry will be a SMALL FRACTION of the problem. Seriously!

                    Look at the statistics of shipments to and from the islands and how they're getting there. How do you think all the cars, surfboards, kayaks, lumber, concrete, fuel and goods got to Kauai? Does anyone think they were cultivated and grew there? It's shipped via barge and occasionally flown in. Just like the people who live there. Lots were born on the island but a heck of a lot came in via the airlines.

                    Don't blame the Superferry for all the world's problems. If it does contribute, it will be in proportion to what it carries compared to all other means of interisland transportation currently running.

                    Most of us just want the option of being able to get to the neighbor islands via some other mode than the airlines. If some people don't want it, then there are legal and acceptable ways of saying "no" in this society.

                    However, if the majority feels otherwise, then the nay sayers will just have to accept it and step aside. It's not the best way to do things but that's how it is in America.

                    By the way, the surfers were sitting on surfboards made of various types of synthetic material. I hope they realize that the process of creating those plastics generates some highly toxic waste products. By using modern materials they're contributing to the demise of this planet. And when those surfboards are too beat up to ride, where do they end up? In a landfill? Good citizenship starts at home, folks. Perhaps they should learn to carve them from wood.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                      And don't forget their nylon board shorts.

                      Awe heck surf naked on a Koa surfboard...oops then the tree huggers will get all upset. I guess surfers are just as bad to the environment as an SUV.
                      Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Star of Gladness View Post
                        its not their SOP's I challenge / its their use as crowd control against US Citizens. This violates Posse Comitatus act. Federal troops being used against US Citizens.

                        How would the good citizens of Idaho react if the US Army were brought out to block protesters? Not the same! The people of Kaua'i have shown much restraint. I applaud their resolve and hope it remains non-violent.
                        Though many people of Kauai were bitterly divided over a boating issue more than a decade ago they are not so divided about Hawaii superfascUSterry.

                        It's amazing what little provocation it has taken to bring out the true character of Hawaii superfascUSterry and its Hawaii government of corporatUSt lackeys and sycophants.

                        Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
                        Hmmm...I think your "S" key is malfunctioning...

                        Are you saying that those who patronize or invest in American capitalism are really those who are not US citizens but merely foreigners who support capitalism?

                        ...I don't think a dozen or even a couple of hundred protesters reflect the views of the majority who want the SF to come to Maui or Kauai. I think residents of either island who book passage on SF will send the message to those who protest that their views are limited to their own paranoia as to the environmental impacts they feel will be the demise of their island.

                        Protesting is one thing (hey it's their right) but to deny a ship to enter is another.
                        "Are you saying that those who patronize or invest in American capitalism are really those who are not US citizens but merely foreigners who support capitalism?'"
                        No, I'm not wholly saying that, but as you brought it up,,, who do you think invests in capitalUSism, U.S. citizens? US banks? Of course living U.S. citizens' government have "invested" trillion$ from their federal, state and local "expected future tax revenues". The payoffs of those investments are immediate, such as we witnessed last week when the Federal Reserve "invested" billion$ (aka future generations' indebtedness) into bank coffers to keep corporatUSts' $US sham from ruinous collapse.

                        Since you apparently could take the time to count my use of "s" why not take the time to answer whether or not you think people on Kauai and Maui should be able to vote on this superfascUSterry issue? If you and other superfascUSterry folks think majorities on Kauai or Maui favor superfascUSterry you should have nothing to fear.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Hawaii's USist mentality , Re: Hawaii superfascUSterry - Chapter 5

                          Originally posted by waioli kai
                          who do you think invests in capitalUSism, U.S. citizens? US banks? Of course living U.S. citizens' government have "invested" trillion$ from their federal, state and local "expected future tax revenues". The payoffs of those investments are immediate, such as we witnessed last week when the Federal Reserve "invested" billion$ (aka future generations' indebtedness) into bank coffers to keep corporatUSts' $US sham from ruinous collapse. [...] vote on this superfacUSterry issue?
                          Waiola, name calling and kooky vast conspiracy theories aren't helping your argument. If you want to make a more convincing argument, please explain more specifically how the Hawaii Superferry is part of an evil capitalistic conspiracy of foreigners to steal money from the people of Kauai.
                          Last edited by mapen; August 28, 2007, 04:05 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                            Superferry passengers ponder Kauai protesters
                            If anything, last night's protests seemed to strengthen many of the passengers' desire to keep the Superferry going... As they left Pier 19 shortly after midnight, many passengers expressed more compassion for Superferry officials and also said that they don't understand why the service isn't being embraced.
                            Effort to stop Superferry unfair
                            You would think the Hawai'i Supreme Court had ample time to voice its opinion on the Hawai'i Superferry. Instead, it issued a vague ruling just days before the Superferry was set to launch, paving the way for a costly backlash... Such last-minute moves reflect a serious lack of planning, and serve as red flags against doing business in our state.
                            Interesting that the Advertiser editorial starts with the Supreme Court decision. I think the mess goes further back to the state and the DOT. I do agree, though, that it's the Superferry that's unfairly targeted here... and that ultimately this mess proves the kind of backwater reputation Hawaii has as far as business climate goes. When I start sounding less like my usual liberal hippie self and more like a Republican, you know things are bad!

                            Stop 'local' card with Superferry
                            It isn't locals versus newcomers. It isn't practical folks versus tree-hugging weirdos. Maybe lots of locals want the Superferry, but certainly not every local person, and the Superferry folks have to be honest and stop playing that card.
                            It's interesting how a debate looks depending on your perspective. I think there's a lot of "localism" cards being thrown by the protesters, as well. I mean, hell, if you wanna play that way... I'm not only a born-and-raised public school grad, but I was a long time card carrying-member of the Sierra Club and ACLU, and I have my damned Kau Inoa shirt. And I'm embarassed at how my "peers" are behaving at the piers and in the waters off Kauai.

                            I don't even have to go anywhere, and I want to buy tickets on the Superferry just to support 'em.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                              Superferry officials' response to having to turn its rig around and come back to Honolulu last night after three hours of sitting outside Nawiliwili Harbor: All passengers were given full refunds, plus five free roundtrip vouchers and travel expenses.

                              Those passengers who were looking to spend last night on Kaua'i were also put up in hotel rooms overnight on O'ahu and will board the Superferry again today for another trip to the Garden Isle.

                              I gotta say this latest incident on Kauai shows that HSF has class. I don't think the same can be said for the protesters. Long term I think that's going to be significant in shaping public opinion.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Hawai'i Superferry - Chapter 5

                                Originally posted by pzarquon View Post
                                ...this mess proves the kind of backwater reputation Hawaii has as far as business climate goes. When I start sounding less like my usual liberal hippie self and more like a Republican, you know things are bad!
                                It's because you are open-minded enough to see that it's not an either/or situation (with apologies to Kierkegaard.) The environmental side wants to do right by the planet, the water, the whales, etc., but you are also willing to pay some price in order to get beneficial business activities to your home state/island. Hawai`i often gets the shortest end of the stick on business matters (part of the "price of paradise.")

                                It's all a matter of huge compromises here - and the disagreements are based on where those compromises fall on the grand scale.

                                Comment

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