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  • Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

    Originally posted by Menehune Man View Post
    What is... is. Of course, but

    It just seems unfair that I and others that would rather not,
    have to put up with all that smoke, possibilities of fires, etc...
    Owing to the threats of terrorism. Fireworks have been banned in Ireland. The UK and the rest of Europe will be soon to follow.

    Comment


    • Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

      I still think it's really interesting that the poll closed in a tie.
      Coincidence???
      Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

      Comment


      • Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

        "You know whoever introduce a bill would not be re-elected again," said Li.
        "I think the people would be very upset and hate that individual that introduce the bill."

        Does that sound like "Political Blackmail" to anyone else?
        Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

        Comment


        • Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

          Amati

          I admire your persistence. I would only say that judging by the level of participation in the use of fireworks, you’re position seems hard to sustain. If there were as much opposition to the use of fireworks as you seem to believe there is – why is there so much fireworks use by so many people?

          Barry’s note that, “Owing to the threats of terrorism. Fireworks have been banned in Ireland. The UK and the rest of Europe will be soon to follow.” Really hits a sore spot – I, for one, am sick and tired of seeing the “terrorist” boogeyman raised as a justification for every kind of restriction of individual rights, and I am appalled that so many people seem OK with that. Indeed, the “the threats of terrorism,” crap is what was used to justify the passage of the “Patriot Act” that makes it possible for mothers who argued with stewardesses about disciplining children to be arrested – AS FELONS no less – and for people who get drunk on airplanes to be imprisoned – getting on drunk on an airplane may be stupid, but it should not be a felony. God, please protect me from my government and from reactionary airline agents who disapprove of my behavior, attitude or the kinds of clothes I – or a young woman – happens to be wearing. Why not terrorism dress-code too?

          And, finally, to Menehune Man, No, it doesn't sound like political blackmail, it sounds like a pretty accurate assessment of what the reaction to bill like that would be.

          Comment


          • Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

            Originally posted by Amati View Post
            I stand by my statement that many would support a ban, there are numerous comments in this thread in support of a fireworks ban. Is there enough support in the community and legislature to bring about a new law? Maybe, maybe not.
            There may be enough support to pass a law, but I think there's enough support for fireworks that it would be as effective as our current ban on aerials.

            I'm more interested in amending our current law so that it can be enforced.


            Originally posted by Menehune Man View Post
            "You know whoever introduce a bill would not be re-elected again," said Li.
            "I think the people would be very upset and hate that individual that introduce the bill."

            Does that sound like "Political Blackmail" to anyone else?
            It does. It's also a fair assessment of the feelings it would generate.

            But help me out here. I have a short attention span. When was the last time in Hawaii that someone didn't get reelected over a single issue? People get mad, stamp their feet, but short of a criminal conviction, they keep getting reelected. As long as the person in question isn't up for election this year, I think it's an empty threat.

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            • Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

              Originally posted by Menehune Man View Post
              I still think it's really interesting that the poll closed in a tie.
              Coincidence???
              I wouldn't put too much stock into this poll, it was only open for 3 days, I don't think that is enough time for a poll. And if you check the responses between the time the thread had started (12/30/08) to when the poll closed (1/1/09) there were 10 users that responed to the thread but did not vote on the poll plus there were 15 additional users who add to this thread after the poll closed.

              Comment


              • Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

                Originally posted by Paul Valenti View Post
                Amati
                I admire your persistence. I would only say that judging by the level of participation in the use of fireworks, you’re position seems hard to sustain. If there were as much opposition to the use of fireworks as you seem to believe there is – why is there so much fireworks use by so many people.
                Are you referring to the position that there has been support expressed in postings by other HTers for a ban? Reread the entire thread, support is there. (And yes, I know that there has also been support to keep fireworks.) By the way, I think you'd have to look pretty hard to find my personal opinion, I do not think it has been stated.

                Originally posted by helen View Post
                I wouldn't put too much stock into this poll, it was only open for 3 days, I don't think that is enough time for a poll. And if you check the responses between the time the thread had started (12/30/08) to when the poll closed (1/1/09) there were 10 users that responed to the thread but did not vote on the poll plus there were 15 additional users who add to this thread after the poll closed.
                I had not idea when I started the poll that there'd still be discussion weeks later. Live and learn, which is what I'm still doing on HT, especially with polls.
                Last edited by Amati; January 25, 2009, 07:31 PM.
                Now run along and play, but don’t get into trouble.

                Comment


                • Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

                  Amati

                  I too am surprised that the discussion has gone on so long - in the end, I think the people are divided. One can argue the point either way - as we have - and still wind up without resolution. Eventually, there will be a law passed and enforced, or there won't be - or another law will be passed that can't be, or isn't enforced. Regardless, I wouldn't count on an end to fireworks anytime soon.

                  Paul

                  Comment


                  • Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

                    Originally posted by Paul Valenti View Post
                    Eventually, there will be a law passed and enforced, or there won't be - or another law will be passed that can't be, or isn't enforced.
                    Paul
                    I see the topic is already under consideration by legislators. Let's see if there is a bill introduced, and if so, how many HTers send in their opinions (testimony) for or against.

                    How many HTers are just "talkers", and how many are actually "doers"? That could be an interesting thread, if there is a bill introduced this session on a subject that grabs our attention.
                    Now run along and play, but don’t get into trouble.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

                      I don't remember what I've posted thus far so excuse me if this is a repeat, but I'm against passing any more fireworks laws unless the police chief can provide a convincing explanation as to why it would be better enforced than what we have now.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

                        Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
                        I'm against passing any more fireworks laws unless the police chief can provide a convincing explanation as to why it would be better enforced than what we have now.
                        Perhaps he'd give the analogy that it is hard to catch all the speeders on the roadways, but if driving were completely banned, then a speeder would stand out more and be easier to catch.

                        Using that logic, it is hard to catch the illegal firework users, but if fireworks were not allowed at all, then the users would stand out more and be easier to catch.

                        [NO I'M NOT saying to ban driving, I'm just thinking of what the chief might say to GeckoGeek]
                        Now run along and play, but don’t get into trouble.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

                          Originally posted by Amati View Post
                          Using that logic, it is hard to catch the illegal firework users, but if fireworks were not allowed at all, then the users would stand out more and be easier to catch.
                          I'd need details on why that's the case. My "hot button" is the aerials. I think it's pretty easy to separate aerials vs the legal stuff.

                          To go back to your analogy, he may not catch all the speeders, but he should have a nice fist-full of tickets to show he's been doing something. Other then nabbing a couple of sellers I haven't seen any reports that he's arrested a single user.

                          I think we're better off fine-tuning the existing law so that he can get some arrests and convictions before we try to ban it all. Past efforts at restricting things have only led to making things worse, so I think I have a valid fear of "the prohibition" effect.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

                            Yes, it will be interesting to see if a bill is introduced, to see if it is a serious bill, and to see if it has a realistic chance of passage. Depending upon what they try to do in the way of regulation, I will certainly be letting the legislators what I think, even if carries no weight since I cannot vote in Hawaii.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

                              Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
                              To go back to your analogy, he may not catch all the speeders, but he should have a nice fist-full of tickets to show he's been doing something. Other then nabbing a couple of sellers I haven't seen any reports that he's arrested a single user.
                              Again, Ron Whitfield’s point is made, in even more illustrative details. I had to laugh at Amati when he said:
                              I'm not so sure about that, after following this thread. Seems like many support a ban.
                              Many? I agree with Valenti. The only thing this thread illustrates is how divided people are when it comes to fireworks. But putting how I feel about it aside for a moment, I just have to restate the obvious Amati, because it just doesn’t seem to sink in: a law is meaningless, unless it can be enforced. You seem to believe that a total ban will make it easier to spot “violators.” The unintended (or perhaps intended, based on how corrupt you believe our government is) consequence of such a ban, is that black market dealers (and buyers) would proliferate faster than during Prohibition. We all know how effectively that was enforced.

                              We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

                              — U.S. President Bill Clinton
                              USA TODAY, page 2A
                              11 March 1993

                              Comment


                              • Re: Ban New Years fireworks?

                                Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                                But putting how I feel about it aside for a moment, I just have to restate the obvious Amati, because it just doesn’t seem to sink in: a law is meaningless, unless it can be enforced. You seem to believe that a total ban will make it easier to spot “violators.” The unintended (or perhaps intended, based on how corrupt you believe our government is) consequence of such a ban, is that black market dealers (and buyers) would proliferate faster than during Prohibition. We all know how effectively that was enforced.
                                Well, TuNnl, I guess if there would be some way to set up hidden private indoor clubs that set off fireworks (which is what happened during prohibition, only it was serving alcohol in that case), then more power to those who'd stay indoors to watch the fireworks displays going off. YIKES!
                                Now run along and play, but don’t get into trouble.

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