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Post that pidgin vernacular from your island!

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  • Re: Post that pidgin vernacular from your island!

    yeah, no? Is really another way of saying "gee, how 'bout that"

    Now, reading the dissection and quantification of pidgin is the fastest way to rash my ass. Confonnit-Nuff-Aready!

    pax

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    • Re: Post that pidgin vernacular from your island!

      Originally posted by cezanne
      Same ting . Oh made me think of another one: "same same" = same thing or 'do these match?'

      LOL I often say the emmy comment when I'm watching UH basketball at the Stanley when an opposing player acts like he got fouled and takes a huge flop.
      A lot of guys also say the player taking the flop is "looking for the Oscar." Like when the 230 lb. power forward is bowled over by a 170 lb. point guard.

      Craig, "Zatoichi" was played by Shintaro Katsu, not Mifune. Katsu's brother, Tomisaburo Wakayama, was "Ogami Itto" in the Lone Wolf With Cub series of bloody samurai movies back in the 1970's. I bought the Lone Wolf set of DVDs off eBay a couple of years ago.

      The "Zatoichi" movies were shown on IFC (digital cable 675) a few months ago on Saturday mornings (one around 2:00 am, repeat around 8:00 am), Other samurai flicks have been on recently (Rashomon, Yojimbo, etc.) and I suspect there will be another cycle later this year.

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      • Re: Post that pidgin vernacular from your island!

        Originally posted by Pua'i Mana'o
        Nuff-Aready!
        Don't you mean: 'nuff said?
        (With a wink and a nod to MadAzza & 1stwahine.)

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        • Re: Post that pidgin vernacular from your island!

          Originally posted by Pua'i Mana'o

          Now, reading the dissection and quantification of pidgin is the fastest way to rash my ass. Confonnit-Nuff-Aready!
          Fo' real. It's almost enough to cause a paradigm shift reversal.

          How hybolic is that?

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          • Re: Post that pidgin vernacular from your island!

            Originally posted by Leo Lakio
            Can you technically "degrade" a vernacular language? It's not like Hawai`i-based pidgin was developed as a formal language, it's more of a vox populi.
            True, Hawaii based pidgin was created so that different immigrant groups could speak to each other. That is not the case today. It's become more of a slang that we no longer really need to communicate.
            Last edited by Paul; August 8, 2006, 11:50 AM.

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            • Re: Post that pidgin vernacular from your island!

              Originally posted by Paul
              True, Hawaii based pidgin was created so that different immigrant groups could speak to each other. That is not the case today. It's become more of a slang that we no longer really need to communicate.
              I think we're working under different definitions, Paul. When you say "created," to me, that implies that it was intentionally developed with that communication concern in mind, by an individual or group of linguistic experts, as in the case of Esperanto. Was that what you meant to say, or am I interpreting your use of "created" inaccurately? ("Seems to me, what we have here, is a FAIL-yuh...to c'MMUNIcate.")

              I thought pidgin tended to just develop in a more natural fashion, as people from different languages increased contact. Am I wrong about that? If true, then it is just continuing that organic path, and rather than being necessary for communication between different immigrants, it now becomes a bonding force among "locals."

              Which may be exactly the same thing you said, I realize. Where we differ is that I don't see it as degradation, but rather, evolution - suggesting a living vibrancy that is lacking from a language such as, say, Latin.

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              • Re: Post that pidgin vernacular from your island!

                that term "created" that Paul used is one of hindsight. Is this thread going to veer into one about the politics of language? Conclusions like
                "It's become more of a slang that we no longer really need to communicate.
                are politically-charged ones. In other words, who reserves the right to tell you and me what we really need to communicate?

                pax

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                • Re: Post that pidgin vernacular from your island!

                  Originally posted by Paul
                  It's become more of a slang that we no longer really need to communicate.
                  AINOKEA!

                  AUNTIE pUpULE
                  Be AKAMAI ~ KOKUA Hawai`i!
                  Philippians 4:13 --- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

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                  • Re: Post that pidgin vernacular from your island!

                    okay okay enough with the attacks. Check out this article I found. It's not only in Hawai`i that the local people speak an unusual dialect.

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                    • Re: Post that pidgin vernacular from your island!

                      Attacks? What attacks? I thought we were having a pretty good discussion. In fact, one that's overly analytical by some accounts. Simply because someone disagrees with your assessment that pidgin is being "degraded" rather than evolving naturally hardly amounts to an attack.

                      As for "cleaning up" pidgin or other local speaking quirks in media coverage, it's something I know our dailies struggle with quite often. I definitely notice when they've made a conscious effort to reflect what was actually said, even if it's "incorrect" English. Some recent tragic stories where families are lamenting the loss of a loved one have been memorable in this way, in particular. Even though it might be confusing to a non-local reader, preserving a natural emotional utterance conveys so much more than an "edited version" would.

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                      • Re: Post that pidgin vernacular from your island!

                        Originally posted by Paul
                        okay okay enough with the attacks. Check out this article I found. It's not only in Hawai`i that the local people speak an unusual dialect.
                        Paul, I didn't mean to come across as attacking you; I differed with you on a few terms, and wanted clarification on the others.

                        There are many "creole" languages all around the world, of course. We've had that discussion here on HT in many forms and many forums.

                        So, shall we move on to any additional examples (as requested) unique to your own island or region?

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                        • Re: Post that pidgin vernacular from your island!

                          Originally posted by Leo Lakio
                          Paul, I didn't mean to come across as attacking you; I differed with you on a few terms, and wanted clarification on the others.

                          There are many "creole" languages all around the world, of course. We've had that discussion here on HT in many forms and many forums.

                          So, shall we move on to any additional examples (as requested) unique to your own island or region?
                          The funny thing about pidgin is that I speak it in everyday life but have a hard time writing it. That's not the way I learned to write in school.

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                          • Re: Post that pidgin vernacular from your island!

                            Originally posted by Paul
                            okay okay enough with the attacks. Check out this article I found. It's not only in Hawai`i that the local people speak an unusual dialect.

                            no, you gave us a link that speaks to journalistic practice and ethical ramifications of "cleaning up bad grammar" wrt quoting sources. The article showcases only two examples: one that has to do with singular verb spoken where the plural form should appear and the other including an example of their local dialect.

                            The point of the article has merit. But it is not lost upon me to note that the dialectal example is the one where the bias is evident:

                            "Frankly, I was a bit offended, because I am from Western North Carolina and thought that these quotes would be cleaned up by a reporter or editor under different circumstances but were used because it fits the stereotype of mountain ignorance."

                            "in it's defense "She said cleaning up the quotes, especially the "slam nothing" phrasing, would have drained authenticity from the story. "The speaker's voice would have been lost," she said in an e-mail. "Plus, it speaks to the lack of education that is one of the main problems in the tribe."

                            If your point in submitting this link is to support a belief that pidgin is substandard, unnecessary and serves little purpose, you have made it. Do not consider my response (or my previous one) an attack. It is my acknowledgement of the practice to politicize language as if one has more merit, authenticity or deserved place among the populace than another. As a freeborn woman who speaks two languages and one pidgin fluently, I reserve the right to take umbrage with that point.

                            And I will go there.

                            pax

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                            • Re: Post that pidgin vernacular from your island!

                              Originally posted by Pua'i Mana'o
                              It is my acknowledgement of the practice to politicize language as if one has more merit, authenticity or deserved place among the populace than another
                              Hey I agree with everything that you said. Standard American English has become the defacto language of this country and that's what gives it more merit, authenticity and a deserved place among our populace. It's the tyranny of the majority. That's why people who speak like rednecks, hillbillies, or ghetto people are looked down upon. It's probably the same way with Hawaii pidgin speakers.

                              And I am impressed with what you wrote. You have shown that a pidgin speaker can also write eloquently in standard english. However I personally know several people who can only speak pidgin and barely even write.
                              Last edited by Paul; August 8, 2006, 01:26 PM.

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                              • Re: Post that pidgin vernacular from your island!

                                Originally posted by 1stwahine
                                HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

                                told ya he was LURKING......

                                Too Funny!

                                Auntie Lynn
                                almost like one Pueo sighting...look there's one now!
                                Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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