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  • #61
    Re: Bed bugs closing Restaurant Row 9 theaters?

    Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
    opinions are just fine by me, as long as they aren't used to suppress anyone else's.
    I wasn't going to reply to anything that was said in response to my last post, but I think you make a good point that is actually worth discussing.

    Locking a thread is a suppression of opinion. But so is a discussion marred by personal attacks and posturing. I don't know about anyone else, but I know that a harsh tone and heated rhetoric carried on by 2 or more people can easily discourage others who want to express their opinion, but are reluctant to do so because of the battle royal that is raging. This was probably true in this particular thread,... and I definitely know it is true in past threads where I and others have been guilty of letting disagreements get out of hand. Messages from people that I respect have been sent to me expressing that POV, for which I have come to regret.

    Hence, my belief that at the very least, a warning could have been given to all parties to express their opinions, but do so without the ad hominem attacks.
    This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Bed bugs closing Restaurant Row 9 theaters?

      This thread continues to have me running to the dictionary! The day's still very young and, already, I've learned something. That's a daily goal for me!

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Bed bugs closing Restaurant Row 9 theaters?

        So the rumor of the closing of Restaurant Row 9 theaters is true but the reason of it's closing is not.

        Not because of health issues but rather the landlord was not getting not much money from the operation of the theater.

        So I guess the question is what's going to happen to the space that the theater is using?

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Bed bugs closing Restaurant Row 9 theaters?

          Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post

          Gee, what a shame we live in America, where freedom of speech is the FIRST amendment!

          *sigh*

          Pet peeve alert!


          Bill of Rights
          Amendment I

          Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

          So far HawaiiThreads hasn't become a governmental agency, nor has Ryan been elected to congress.

          On 'private property' you can hold out both hands, poo in one and put your first amendment rights in the other...

          see which one fills up first.

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Bed bugs closing Restaurant Row 9 theaters?

            Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
            Locking a thread is a suppression of opinion. But so is a discussion marred by personal attacks and posturing. I don't know about anyone else, but I know that a harsh tone and heated rhetoric carried on by 2 or more people can easily discourage others who want to express their opinion, but are reluctant to do so because of the battle royal that is raging. This was probably true in this particular thread,... and I definitely know it is true in past threads where I and others have been guilty of letting disagreements get out of hand. Messages from people that I respect have been sent to me expressing that POV, for which I have come to regret.
            Very well put - and if this is a sign of a "new" Frankie's Market, I have a feeling we will be in public agreement far more than we have been in the past. Counting myself among the "others" (as highlighted above), I think it wise that we allow some time to pass and to prove our changes in attitude with our posts, before we start making recommendations as to how other posters should behave. Let you and me be among those who can lead by example (and I know at least one other individual who will be happy to join us, if not more).

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Bed bugs closing Restaurant Row 9 theaters?

              For y'all that are like naming names of folks/companies who aren't active players in this thread. Ya best make sure they're aware and approve of the position they're being placed in. Libel suit smack downs aren't a great summer activity, unless you like being a legal pinata.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Bed bugs closing Restaurant Row 9 theaters?

                Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                Very well put - and if this is a sign of a "new" Frankie's Market, I have a feeling we will be in public agreement far more than we have been in the past. Counting myself among the "others" (as highlighted above), I think it wise that we allow some time to pass and to prove our changes in attitude with our posts, before we start making recommendations as to how other posters should behave. Let you and me be among those who can lead by example (and I know at least one other individual who will be happy to join us, if not more).
                Well, I'm on board. I like HT much better when I don't have to keep my helmet on and my head down. If leading by example works (and we've seen it go in both directions) let's lead toward the light. Respecting the opinions of others doesn't have to include agreement, but disagreements can be voiced either with respect or disdain; respect works better in the long run and probably keeps us on track as well.

                A couple of 'sayings' come to mind:
                (Fill the x's with your own adjective, noun or verb as you please, since I have heard several different versions.)

                It's just as xxxxx to take offense as it is to give offense.
                Opinions are like xxxxx, everyone's got one and xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx.

                Aloha,
                Ka`onohi
                Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                ~ ~
                Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Bed bugs closing Restaurant Row 9 theaters?

                  Speaking only for myself, I find that my thought is clearer and more useful when I am not caught up in fear or anger. But I know there are more robust souls who's thinking is stimulated by these more dramatic emotions - great to watch the prizefight, but I'll stay on the sidelines!
                  Speak to the heart and the man becomes instantly virtuous. Emerson

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Bed bugs closing Restaurant Row 9 theaters?

                    this post is divided into three because posts are limited to 10,000 characters. i apologize for any typos. due to the complexity of the entirety of this post, i am not able to proofread as much as i would like.

                    all definitions quoted here are from dictionary.com:

                    gossip: to talk idly, esp. about the affairs of others; go about tattling.

                    malice: 1. desire to inflict injury, harm, or suffering on another, either because of a hostile impulse or out of deep-seated meanness: the malice and spite of a lifelong enemy. 2. Law. evil intent on the part of a person who commits a wrongful act injurious to others.

                    negligence: the failure to exercise that degree of care that, in the circumstances, the law requires for the protection of other persons or those interests of other persons that may be injuriously affected by the want of such care.

                    that said, let us now start by looking at the original post in its entirety:

                    Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                    Recent street talk sez Restaurant Row's $1 theaters are so infested with bed bugs that the mgt. may simply decide to close rather than deal with alternatives. The problem is said to mostly be brought into the cheap movie house by the clients at the nearby State sponsored Next Step shelter for the homeless where bed bug infestation has been quietly pandemic for years.
                    ron here ties two things: the later-to-be-revealed-true closing of a business with the homeless. in fact, ron says he heard the theatres are closing because of a bed bug infestation brought in by homeless from the state's next step homeless shelter. additionally, he claims next step has had a pandemic (used incorrectly here, as pandemic refers to a disease prevalent in a large region, like a country or continent or the entire world; not just merely prevalent with a much smaller group of people or location) problem with bedbugs for years.

                    several things to note that are problematic with this post: (1) the deliberate and later repeated use of the word "pandemic," which (understandably) causes readers to have a gut reaction of disgust. one reader claimed his "ewwwwww" was in reaction simply to the bedbugs. that may be so. unfortunately, the bedbugs are on the homeless, and in the course of this thread, parasite and host are hopelessly tied together.

                    (2) the two parts of ron's statement carry bad consequences. the first part is the claim the theatre is closing because it is heavily infested with bedbugs. i should not need to explain how this is harmful to any business. the second part--that the shelter's residents all have bedbugs (which is what ron means us to understand, with his deliberate and repeated use of the word "pandemic") is also harmful.

                    (3) ron does not quote the source, even generally, here. he merely says it's "recent word on the street," which is amorphous.

                    (4) neither does he say whether he tried to validate his claims.

                    (5) with the absence of statement that he is unsure whether his claims are true, in essence, he gives readers the impression of veracity.

                    (6) the fact that ron's claims are about the homeless and a theatre that is more likely than others to be patronized by the poor (both classes of people who are discriminated against in society) adds another unpleasant layer of tone, whether ron intended it or not.

                    Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                    The theater mgt. will just have to take strident measures to rid the place of the vermin if they want to stay in biz once the word get's out...
                    here, ron repeats the rumor that a bedbug infestation is the cause for the theatre's closing. note the phrase, "once the word get's (sic) out." let me point out that he is solely responsible, on HT, for "the word getting out" and he knows the consequences this has (that the theatre's business will be devasted).

                    Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                    It was a group of homeless, some that are from Next Step, that was discussing it with me.

                    Next time aim a little to the high right side.
                    after my pointing out the discriminatory tone of his original post and willingness to promote a rumor which he knows will have terrible consequences for a business, he trots out his source---the homeless themselves, some whom are from next step. readers are, therefore, to believe what he said.

                    Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                    I think I can do a little better, but this thread isn't about you/me and I'm trying not to incite a reaction from the lock police as FM was hoping for, but you seem insistant on throwing misguided fits about nothing instead of maintaining a focus on the subject matter.
                    And stop using words I have to look up!
                    when i pushed him again, he said i was "throwing fits about nothing." i hereby submit (as FM did) that ron's claims on "the subject matter" are not "nothing" to the reputation of a business or to an unfortunate class of people who lack the resources to defend themselves. the homeless are not likely to have internet access to respond to ron's statements.

                    Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                    You're still missing the mark, give up already.
                    I stated it was 'street talk' at the start, and gossip is about matters of no importance. Will you go to these theaters now that you know the creepy crawlies can be on your skin and not just on the screen?
                    I would imagine there is also a risk of contamination of serious diseases from blood suckers roaming from bod to bod. Even if not, it's disgusting, and I was glad to learn of it and know to stay away even tho I've never been.
                    Sounds like you have stock in Consolidated...
                    again, he acknowledges that the rumor--which he continues to spread--has bad consequences to the theatre. he attempts to add fuel to the fire of disgust against the theatre with words "contamination" from the "creepy crawlies" and "blood suckers" (again, brought in by the next step shelter's homeless). in essence, his intent is to scare readers away from the theatre. remember--we did not yet know that it was going to close. his repetition of this rumor is done with intent.

                    Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                    What's a NY hotel review got to do with the OP?
                    And pandemic is correct, especially as I was obviously referring to the shelter, not the theater.
                    'Word on the street' from those that have first hand knowlege is a decent start, and leaves it open to further investigation to the ultimate facts. Where/when else do you think you would have heard it?

                    And if what I heard was a bunch of BS, then good. Who wants grotesque blood suckers in their theaters? Prove that it's just a false rumour and I'll be the first to be happy. Does the possibility of an error enlist me for the corner chair with a dunce hat? I think not. But if it's true then your endless propensity for deriding me and the matter while belittling it as mere gossip should find the pointy chapeau a perfect fit for you.
                    by this point, ron has posted 8 times on this subject. this is the first time of any kind of statement anywhere close to an admission that his original post may not be true.

                    Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                    We may never get to the bottom of it now. But if the horrid gossipy rumour was true, those critters will migrate to other establishments nearby, if they can survive the trek without further nurishment.

                    But funny how one half of the story, that the theaters will close, comes on the heels of the other half...
                    And you notice in the article that there were complaints from patrons about the homeless being there.

                    Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                    We may never get to the bottom of it now. But if the horrid gossipy rumour was true, those critters will migrate to other establishments nearby, if they can survive the trek without further nurishment.
                    ron said this after another HTer encouraged him to call the department of health and the theatre to see if the claims he was making were true. this also was after it became public that the theatre is, in fact closing. note that now his claims--which he repeatedly stated as if they were fact--are now a "horrid gossipy rumor." regardless, he continues to incite fear by saying the "critters will migrate to other establishments nearby" (of course, only if the rumor is true). i'll point out again that he is the only source of said "horrid gossipy rumor" on HT, which is widely read not only by residents of honolulu, but statewide and worldwide). but later in that same post he says this:

                    Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                    But funny how one half of the story, that the theaters will close, comes on the heels of the other half...
                    And you notice in the article that there were complaints from patrons about the homeless being there.
                    ...which is basically ron struggling to maintain credibility for his initial post.
                    superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

                    "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

                    nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Bed bugs closing Restaurant Row 9 theaters?

                      part two:

                      Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                      1) No need to repeatedly call me out and embarrass yourself, a simple knock on the door asking my mom for me would've sufficed.
                      2) But still, I support the rapport that helped instigate discussion and investigation towards more facts. That's why I put it out there, not to rag on any homeless.
                      3) Too bad you squelched their interest. That could have helped resolve the matter completely and if it was a problem could have been of benefit to the community.
                      It's also a shame you didn't mention the fact of Next Step's pandemic infestations. That situation is LONG overdue for investigation and resolvance.
                      4) That alone leads me lean towards 'no story here, move along, move along', if true. Thanx for the info!
                      let me get this tangential note out of the way: this thread has very little of true "rapport" about it.

                      by this point, kaonohi himself called the department of health. and frankie's market did some research, finding statements from the landlord at restaurant row. we have credible, source-derived evidence that:

                      1. it is highly likely the closing of the theatres was long in coming.

                      2. it is highly unlikely the theatres were rampantly infested with bedbugs.

                      therefore:

                      3. it is exceedingly unlikely the theatre is closing because of an infestation of bedbugs brought in by homeless, whether they are affiliated with next step or not.

                      note that as a result, ron is practically begging everyone to move along and forget his original post:

                      Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                      1) 'no story here, move along, move along'
                      but he is still holding out that maybe his original post was right....

                      Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                      1) 'no story here, move along, move along', if true.
                      he makes excuses for not doing the fact checking that kaonohi and frankie's market did for all of us:

                      Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                      I don't go to the affected theater or Next Step, and the DOH is SO overwhelmed already with behind schedual work and grossly underfunding and staffing that it wasn't important enuf to bother them on a rumour.
                      he holds on to the sole part or his original statement that has yet to be knocked down as a easily as a house of cards, like his other claims were and adds the authority of the State of Hawaii's governmental officials to underline it:

                      Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                      The situation with Next Step is well known to State officials and they aren't interested in getting the matter dealt with or letting it be known to the public's interest.
                      and then, after i say that i've talked to samiana langi, the wife of utu langi, the director of the next step shelter, he throws in a statement that (1) leads readers to believe he has some relationship (however vague) with and got an admission of the "pandemic bedbug problem" from the director of the next step shelter:


                      Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                      Thank you, but I can speak to Utu virtually any time I please. Like the State, he's well aware of the situation. I doubt he can do more than what he has and it probably won't be resolved until they move out of the warehouse in Kakaako, hopefully without dragging the bugs with them to a new place.
                      well, he could have spoken to the DOH. he didn't. he could have spoken to the theatre. he didn't. he could have spoken to utu. he didn't.

                      read on for what samiana langi had to say...
                      superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

                      "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

                      nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Bed bugs closing Restaurant Row 9 theaters?

                        i had two separate conversations with samianga langi the afternoon of tuesday, june 9th. she was not hard to find. i welcome all of you to PM me if you would like her cell number to verify what i've said here is true. while i did not speak to utu langi, a google search gave his phone number: 223-5176.

                        she told me that such "bad mouthing" (her words) is to be expected given the work they do. homeless individuals are not sympathetic folks sometimes.

                        she admits that when next step started (i believe it was in 2006), there was a problem with bed bugs and lice etc. however, in the years since, they've greatly controlled the problem, even hiring a company to do pest control regularly. their 200 families are currently pest-free, and have been for quite some time.

                        she did acknowledge this: when new initiates into the next step program come in, sometimes they have a problem with lice or bedbugs. understandable, because homeless are likely to have difficulty getting proper health care or practicing good hygiene. that person is treated, his/her clothes treated or destroyed, and steps are taken so the problem does not spread to the current residents of the shelter. with diligence and care, it isn't all that hard to eliminate bedbugs and their eggs from a person.

                        she was really disheartened, disappointed, and sad that her and her husband's work and the good people who benefit from their efforts were made into the disgusting cause of a business' failure. both the theatre and the shelter have been victimized by ron's posts. she told me that such talk is par for the course, but said that the fact it's on the internet (and therefore permanent) is exceedingly and tangibly hurtful. she appreciated that i bothered to call to let her know so at least next step has the option of responding to the lies. during our second conversation, she told me she already asked a staffer to look up this thread so they could decide whether to respond themselves. i waited a whole day, refrained from posting, and asked admin and the mods not to close this thread to give next step the opportunity to post if they wanted.

                        given the unfortunate circumstance that discriminatory, inflammatory accusations are constantly made against next step and the homeless in general (i've seen this firsthand--attendees at a liliha neighborhood board meeting referred to next step homeless as criminals who are lazy, dirty and drug-addled with utu in the room), i'm not surprised they decided not to post themselves. why bother, when it's yet another in a line of cruel statements that they're used to hearing about, and doubtless, more will follow.

                        but darn it if i wouldn't do it for them, and with a detailed explication of why ron's initial and subsequent posts are so toxic to those who are, or would have, in the theatre's case, (1) had their business devastated or (2) been blamed unfairly when they already suffer so many burdens due to being held so low in society by the negligent, if not malicious, repeated and insistent spread of gossip.

                        as of this writing, this thread has had more than 1,000 views. at least henceforth and forever more, all readers will have the truth.
                        superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

                        "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

                        nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Bed bugs closing Restaurant Row 9 theaters?

                          one absolutely final post from me on this subject:

                          for more on an organization that deserves far better treatment than it did in the original post of this thread, read this profile of utu langi from midweek last year.
                          superbia (pride), avaritia (greed), luxuria (lust), invidia (envy), gula (gluttony), ira (wrath) & acedia (sloth)--the seven deadly sins.

                          "when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: the people i deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surly..."--meditations, marcus aurelius (make sure you read the rest of the passage, ya lazy wankers!)

                          nothing humiliates like the truth.--me, in conversation w/mixedplatebroker re 3rd party, 2009-11-11, 1213

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Bed bugs closing Restaurant Row 9 theaters?

                            From the analog thread:
                            Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                            Then do a search and prove me wrong...
                            Originally posted by Amati View Post
                            I thought the process was to make a statement and present supporting evidence, not to make a statement and then invite others to disprove it?
                            From this thread:
                            Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                            Prove that it's just a false rumour and I'll be the first to be happy.
                            My response: I thought the process was to make a statement and present supporting evidence, not to make a statement and then invite others to disprove it? [Oh, I already said that once.]
                            Now run along and play, but don’t get into trouble.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: We heard it we heard it

                              Originally posted by Ron Whitfield View Post
                              the DOH is SO overwhelmed already with behind schedual work and grossly underfunding and staffing that it wasn't important enuf to bother them on a rumour.
                              I'm sure that won't placate you, but such is the truth.
                              No, that is NOT the truth.

                              I have worked with DOH Vector Control on a number of occasions, and their response has always been rapid, their replies and conclusions timely and accurate. They are great folks always ready and willing to respond.

                              When I called they were ready to send someone to RR9 that day! Since all I had was Ron's report of 'talk on the street' gossip, I didn't feel justified in spending my (our) tax dollars chasing leprechauns. At least they are aware of this vicious rumor, so their radar is up, and any legitimate complaint or report of a real problem will not get past them.

                              DOH had NO reports from attendees at the theatre that they had contracted bedbugs (Please, Mr. Bedbug, sign here. You do understand that in order to fulfill your contractual obligations you need to absolutely commit to no less than a full five-year term of service?), NO reports from the theatre that they had a problem, but they are fully informed as to how to control bedbug problems.

                              I file this with "unsubstantiated rumors."



                              And, next time I find a movie worth watching, I'll go see it for $1.25 at RR9. Theatre management (unaware of the rumor) has convinced me that they know of the potential of the problem, and they work to prevent such a thing.
                              Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                              ~ ~
                              Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                              Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                              Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Bed bugs closing Restaurant Row 9 theaters?

                                I wonder if bed bug eggs glow in the dark like head lice eggs do when hit with an ultra-violet florescent light?

                                http://www.ambericawest.com/blacklight2.html

                                Comment

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