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  • #16
    Re: cultural thing...

    Hawaiians believe in three piko.

    The spiritual piko is our ability to mahalo, and our aloha Akua, aloha aina, aloha lahui.

    The ancestral piko is our ancestry. It ties us to our kupuna. It is our blood. It is this piko that one appreciates his/her Hawaiian birthright.

    The genital piko is our future. It is our choices, womb to tomb. Our character, our fate. And it is in this piko that anyone can appreciate his/her Hawaiian heritage. And raise their children to do the same.

    These are piko, not conflicts. Know the difference, and how they compliment, and everything falls into its rightful place.

    pax

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: cultural thing...

      Craig, more beautiful prose has not graced an internet forum... Hehe. Totally concur with you. I too face the same plight. If the Hawaiian Nation does return, I'm screwed. I don't have any ties to Europe (as can be seen when Europeans decide not to mingle with caucasians (myself) from America). I don't really have any mainland ties except to the Bay Area. I was rejected in NJ because I wasn't a rich elitists who made racial cracks about people of different complexions. So maybe we can set out into the Indian Ocean and settle on an unihabited island, claim it for our own. What do yah think Craig. You down for founding our own Island?
      "Hey fool, we gots yo leada!"
      "But I can't even read good."
      "Whatever that means, you ____ peasant."
      "That (stuff) is the MOST BALLER THING EVAAA!!!!"

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: cultural thing...

        so do you need to believe in all three or any of the three. If all three then even an adopted child into a Hawaiian family can't be Hawaiian. But if any one or combination of the three is okay then Susie and I can be considered culturally as Hawaiian right?

        This can lead to some serious ramification regarding what is and what isn't Hawaiian.

        And for founding my own island, Yeah let's pool some money down and buy an island. I know a Fijian who wants to sell his island, we can call it HTland for us expatriates.
        Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: cultural thing...

          Originally posted by Whitepoint3rchum
          If the Hawaiian Nation does return, I'm screwed...
          Hawaii naturalized citizens long before America had anything to do with it. My European and Chinese ancestors who came here all became naturalized citizens of Hawai'i.

          pax

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: cultural thing...

            Originally posted by craigwatanabe
            so do you need to believe in all three or any of the three. If all three then even an adopted child into a Hawaiian family can't be Hawaiian. But if any one or combination of the three is okay then Susie and I can be considered culturally as Hawaiian right?

            This can lead to some serious ramification regarding what is and what isn't Hawaiian.

            And for founding my own island, Yeah let's pool some money down and buy an island. I know a Fijian who wants to sell his island, we can call it HTland for us expatriates.
            I believe that hanai is hanai. That child was raised Hawaiian has Hawaiian as his heritage and should feel secure, no matter what ANYBODY says. Only our ancestral piko is the one over which we have no control; and that piko can be heavy baggage for some--imagine being that person who gets to be the last living full-blooded Hawaiian. It is our spiritual piko that helps us get over our trials and baggage and forges our resolve, and the fire of our genital piko that forges our choice.

            pax

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: cultural thing...

              Originally posted by Pua'i Mana'o
              I believe that hanai is hanai. That child was raised Hawaiian has Hawaiian as his heritage and should feel secure, no matter what ANYBODY says. Only our ancestral piko is the one over which we have no control; and that piko can be heavy baggage for some--imagine being that person who gets to be the last living full-blooded Hawaiian. It is our spiritual piko that helps us get over our trials and baggage and forges our resolve, and the fire of our genital piko that forges our choice.
              That's fine but how does that determine who get's what when that pie get's cut? There are many Hawaian's who don't know a piko from their belly button and there are those who only know it as their belly button. If they have lost their cultural heritage because of their own ignorance then do they deserve to be embraced in the country they ignored or left? I think not because I couldn't go to Japan and proclaim myself more "Japanese" than any of the nationals there even though I'm 100% Pure Japanese.

              My ancestors were farm dwellers who worked and blessed the lands they tended just like the Hawaiians, but I don't dare go to Japan and proclaim myself more Japanese than those living there. Heck even Kamasami Kong has a better appreciation for things Japanese than I and his last name is Zix and as much of a European Swede than anything else.

              My home is and always was Hawaii and for that I feel deeply rooted here with a fond appreciation for the land I dwell on. I will fight for Hawaii's survival even though I may lose my own land as a result. Does that make me any less of a culturally sensitive man of Hawaiian culture? Does that give me any right to proclaim myself as a Hawaiian by virtue of any of the two remaining piko that is afforded to me to exercise?

              I believe the ancestral piko is more of an excuse for an ignornant Kanaka Maoli to use to claim their place without embracing the other two piko. You can be a Hawaiian by birthright, however if you don't live and embrace it, as you should with the other two piko then I'm sorry, you're not Hawaiian just as I'm really not Japanese. Can't speak the language and quite frankly I hate it's two-face way of communicating: Yes means no and no means yes.

              We need to move on with Hawaii's future and look upon it as an ever-evolving land. Just like America, we in Hawaii were a land of indiginent people that accepted more and more immigrants to develop what we now embrace as modern Hawaii. It all started with Captain Cook and the Great one himself. As in the United States, all of us who are U.S. citizens are from the country we know of as the United States of America we embrace it's identity as ours...we are Americans even though the true Americans had there lands taken away from them as did the Hawaiians.

              But we call ourselves Americans and the rest of the world hates us for that monicker. But that's what we are. How is that different than what is going on here in Hawaii. Eventually as an immigrant seeking citizenship one can lose their nationalism as an Italian and be considered an Italian/American but an American if only.

              Is that what we need to be considered when Hawaii reverts to the monarchy? Japanese/Hawaiian but Hawaiian if only? As a country I believe so thru nationalism. As a culture I believe so. But thru ancestry? Well there in lies the biggest hurdle to be called or considered.

              How will the monarchy determine who is and who isn't Hawaiian? Like I said, there are going to be a lot of pissed off Hawaiians when that determination will be made.
              Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: cultural thing...

                Originally posted by craigwatanabe
                Yeah let's pool some money down and buy an island. I know a Fijian who wants to sell his island, we can call it HTland for us expatriates.
                How about a chain of 23 islands, currently for sale?!? http://www.conflictislands.com/
                .
                .

                That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: cultural thing...

                  Originally posted by LikaNui
                  How about a chain of 23 islands, currently for sale?!? http://www.conflictislands.com/

                  Great, an archipelago, even better. Now how much does it coast?

                  Also Pua, naturalization maybe, but how many 'I'm Hawaiian cause my uncle's cousin's niece's dog's mailman was Hawaiian' would flock to Hawai'i. It would get overpopulated hella quick and THEN I'd be screwed. People from teh mainland with more money than I have would move and become citizens before I could. If that is indeed the case, we should invest in our own archipelago. And yes, Prof. K., I ment to spell 'teh' not the.
                  "Hey fool, we gots yo leada!"
                  "But I can't even read good."
                  "Whatever that means, you ____ peasant."
                  "That (stuff) is the MOST BALLER THING EVAAA!!!!"

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: cultural thing...

                    'I'm Hawaiian cause my uncle's cousin's niece's dog's mailman was Hawaiian'
                    This may be off topic, but how did you string those nouns together so cleverly? The dog was a nice touch. If you said a fish or a bird or a cat, or something like that, it wouldn't have worked as well. If you don't mind, I'd like to copy this down and use a similar sentence pattern when the opportunity presents itself.
                    I ka wā i laulaha ai ka ā€˜apaā€˜apa, he hana hoā€˜āuhuli ka ā€˜ōlelo ā€˜ana me ka ā€˜oiaā€˜iā€˜o.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: cultural thing...

                      Don't forget the mongoose...or was it a rat. But the dog yeah I can see the acceptance of that one.

                      Speaking of things OT, how do you feel about the UH Hilo's Imiloa center here on the Big Island?
                      Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: cultural thing...

                        Absolutely, use it whenever you wish.
                        "Hey fool, we gots yo leada!"
                        "But I can't even read good."
                        "Whatever that means, you ____ peasant."
                        "That (stuff) is the MOST BALLER THING EVAAA!!!!"

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: cultural thing...

                          Originally posted by craigwatanabe
                          That's fine but...
                          Craig, your post has a lot of streaming consciousness to it, and much of it is ground that we have covered before (e.g. sovereign reasons and options).

                          You have made some interesting statements about cultural/ethnic identity. Would you accept someone else telling you how Japaneseā„¢ you are? The definitions and comfort levels you gave above are those you impose upon yourself. What if the govt of Japan says you, all those past nisei in other nations aren't Japanese anymore. When you look in the mirror, would it change your self-reflection, your self-identity? How long before you would mull it over, and then, because you are a self-assured man, might respond "eh, nobody is gonna tell me what I am or not".

                          This speaks to a slippery slope and the train of thought here on this thread that is disturbing, including your statements of
                          I believe the ancestral piko is more of an excuse for an ignornant Kanaka Maoli to use to claim their place without embracing the other two piko. You can be a Hawaiian by birthright, however if you don't live and embrace it, as you should with the other two piko then I'm sorry, you're not Hawaiian just as I'm really not Japanese.
                          Culture and ethnicity are not competitions. We all have our birthrights, which no one has the right to tell another who they are or are not. But our heritage is something we pass on through our families, onto our children, and these should bind us. And using KS isn't a good example, for some kids might attend KS but might not feel "very Hawaiian" because of their looks/features/family upbringing (I know many KS students and alumni who recognize themeselves as "x-ethnicity with a drop of Hawaiian", as if it is something to apologize for).

                          We have to change our way of thinking on that. That baggage is heavy, but it is something no one can control. But between our choices on how we live with it, and our ability to mahalo that with which we have been given and what we do with it, those other two piko can reconcile us into better living.

                          pax

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: cultural thing...

                            If someone told me how Japanese I was, I'd really have to think about it because it's something I'm trying hard to get away from. At least from the perspective of my parents. But the difference is that being Hawaiian is nothing to be ashamed of. The Hawaiians of your ancestry accepted many while Japan felt it necessary to keep it's borders closed to foreigners.

                            Predjudice runs deep in the Nisei, against the Filipino, Korean and Okinawan. That was never the case about Hawaiians (except on a personal level but not on a national level). And for that if the Japanese government told me I wasn't Japanese anymore whether you're Nisei or Sansei like myself, I wouldn't bat an eye because I never considered myself a Japanese national in the first place.

                            But when the Hawaiian monarchy is reinstated, I will cry for acceptance if I were told to leave the home I've only known all my life. My roots here may have only been planted down since 1960 but my family heritage goes back over a hundred years so there is a definate grounding here as it is for many third generation locals.

                            Regarding the ancestral piko as you described. I know of a few Kanaka Maoli that haven't a clue as to their heritage, can't speak the language, don't exercise the two other piko as you described, and would rather eat, drive, and make of habit more of their western counterparts than their own peers.

                            Yet it is those particular individuals (hard for me to call them Kanaka Maoli) that expound on their heritage to denounce all others to get off their lands while not doing anything to understand the land they stand on so firmly. They accept government checks yet berate the same hand that doles it out.

                            They are waiting for that moment when the monarchy will be restored yet don't prepare themselves or their keiki for that eventuallity. Their roots may go deep but they never grew on their geneology. It's as if they severed their roots to their ancestors by not respecting their heritage. I never took the time to find my ancestorial grounds for which the Watanabe/Morikawa clan was born into, likewise these particular Hawaiian friends of mine never tried to locate their ancestorial past that links their heritage to their daily lives. Yet they continue to expound their "rightful" place without following the disciplines and culture for which their ancestors paved for them.

                            This is what I mean when I say arrogant Kanaka Maoli. There are plenty of rightful Kanaka Maoli who truely deserve deliverance and some part Hawaiians as well. These are the ones I support.

                            Yes these statements were expounded on other threads, but it doesn't have to lay there. The topic here was "cultural thing" and it applies here.

                            I have nothing against Hawaiians in general. It is those who wear the badge yet not the honor that I have a hard time supporting. And it is those individuals that will never be satisfied even when the Hawaiian government is put in place. I point them out because they know who they are and they had better start to understand their ancesteral piko as you mentioned because it would be a shame if they cannot connect with their birthright once reinstated in their country. At that point they will truly understand what it means to be outcast in their own land.
                            Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: cultural thing...

                              Originally posted by craigwatanabe
                              It's as if they severed their roots to their ancestors by not respecting their heritage. I never took the time to find my ancestorial grounds for which the Watanabe/Morikawa clan was born into
                              Perhaps, Craig, you might find it useful to explore your heritage further. There is no shame in being of Japanese ancestry; racism and horrific actions exist in the past of all cultures, largely because we view them through the lens of the present day.

                              Many of your postings have an underlying current that suggests a desire on your part to have little to no connection with your ancestry, almost as if you feel shame. Perhaps you need to look into this; your children may someday be glad you did.

                              This suggestion submitted with much respect.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: cultural thing...

                                See, I'm going to play a 'lil "devil's advocate" here. Ok. This whole 'getting in touch with your roots business' seems a little confused. I'm part Irish, part German, and part Swedish. Pretty tight cultures: celtic, barbarian, viking. However, I am not any of those. My forefathers were, having been born and having lived in said countries. I am not. There IS NO genetic code distinguishing Scandinavians, etc. It's simply a regional thing. And since I'm not from the region and have no idea how to properly pillage a Catholic church or construct a raiding vessel and not sure how I qualify as being any of those cultures. See, to honor one's ancestry is all fine and good, but as I said before, DNA constituing outward appearance (i.e. stub nose, blue eyes, curly black hair, more melanin...) is negligable and a couple centuries out of a region can change such features. Yes if it wasn't for my German ancestors breeding, I wouldn't be here. No I'm not from Germany (as any actual German will tell you), I'm from the North American Continent and have my own culture. I've never smelt the Germanic air, never been to the Black Forest, never fought off the Romans, never spoke a lick of German etc. Now in the case of part Hawaiians or those claiming to be, trying to keep one's 'culture alive' seems a bit weird. If a full Hawaiian having lived in Hawai'i and having been raised practicing ancient traditions tries to preserve their culture, yes they are Hawaiian. They never diverged from the culture.

                                Another thing that strikes me is some of the sentiments held by part Hawaiians. Sometimes I just get the urge to pistol-whip people of mixed enthnicity who are primarily Asian/Caucasian/African with a minority of Hawaiian blood who claim the Hawaiians as there exclusive 'people'. 'My people we must struggle together against the haole oppression' or whateva that jibberish is. Ok moron, First off you're barely Hawaiian, so thats essentially self hate. You wouldn't be here if THE MAJORITY OF YOUR PEOPLE hadn't produced your ass. You don't get to pick and choose, ludacris. Look up the definitions of one's ethnicity. You're whatever your father is or the majority of your blood quantum is. So yes the haole/pake/popolo are your people moreso than the kanaka, you fool. Not targeting anyone on this forum, it's just that's what my reaction to the imbeciles who make such claims would be if I ran across them.

                                So what am I? What is Mad Azzaz? We're definitely not European. Hells no! That might have applied before globalization whence the English bastages decided to divide everyone up and claim actual genetic differences cause they wanted t make themselves look superior to everyone else. Not anymore though. So what are you? Craig ain't Japanese. He's got the ancestry but he certainly isn't Japanese. What are YOU?!
                                "Hey fool, we gots yo leada!"
                                "But I can't even read good."
                                "Whatever that means, you ____ peasant."
                                "That (stuff) is the MOST BALLER THING EVAAA!!!!"

                                Comment

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