Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Cockfighting: a cultural activity?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: Cockfighting: a cultural activity?

    Edit: I'm not trying to give Mike a hard time. I have a hard time with the way certain people treat animals, as though its all fun and games to watch helpless animals suffer. Peace
    ~ This is the strangest life I've ever known ~

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Cockfighting: a cultural activity?

      Originally posted by timkona View Post
      Some people say we should not interfere with other people's cultures.
      Yeah, but you're using cultural practices taking place in foreign countries as examples. Surely, there is a difference when an immigrant tries to bring their cultural practices to another country. Common sense tells us that the "culture" argument has limitations on what is or is not acceptable in the country that they have chosen to emigrate to.

      As the Humane Society national president said, in regards to the resolution:

      "A wide array of animal abusers use the smokescreen of culture as a defense for their depravity, whether they are bullfighters, dogfighters, or seal clubbers," Pacelle wrote in the group's blog. "It is just amazing that a group of elected officials — albeit a small group of four individuals — would provide a defense for a group of known, professional lawbreakers who enjoy the sight of animals trying to hack each other to death and like to gamble on the outcome."
      I can also add to that:

      Another thing that weakens the cultural defense of cockfighting is the modern day practice of having the roosters ingest steroids and stimulants. Cockfighting proponents can talk all day about how their bloodsport goes back hundreds of years... but the truth of the matter is that steroids weren't used hundreds of years ago by anyone.
      This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Cockfighting: a cultural activity?

        Well, bull-fighting is part of Spanish culture. So what? I just don't understand the purpose behind 'recognizing' a cultural activity abhorrent to our society. Should we also recognize head-hunting, revenge/honor killings, plural marriages, infanticide and running amok? I know, let's recognize traffic jams, bankruptcy, infidelity, suicide and governmental fraud, waste and abuse as part of our own cultural activities! Whoopee!

        Hello, reality check, please.
        Last edited by salmoned; March 31, 2010, 09:19 PM.
        May I always be found beneath your contempt.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Cockfighting: a cultural activity?

          And how about shark fin soup? That bill (banning . . .) bit the dust today.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Cockfighting: a cultural activity?

            while we're at it why not ban boxing, or other sporting events designed to pummel the crap outta your opponent? Roosters die in cockfights, so do prizefighters.
            Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Cockfighting: a cultural activity?

              Craig and Kimo, I don't know where you're coming from here (unfortunately, it's not the first time, either). The discussion isn't about banning anything, it's about governmental recognition of cock-fighting as a cultural activity. I can't perceive how your comments relate to that topic. Could you give me a hint as to the tie-in?
              May I always be found beneath your contempt.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Cockfighting: a cultural activity?

                Originally posted by salmoned View Post
                Craig and Kimo, I don't know where you're coming from here (unfortunately, it's not the first time, either). The discussion isn't about banning anything, it's about governmental recognition of cock-fighting as a cultural activity. I can't perceive how your comments relate to that topic. Could you give me a hint as to the tie-in?
                We'll protect chickens that put their lives on the line in the ring, but we don't protect humans who put their lives in the ring. Simple, no?
                Twitter: LookMaICanWrite


                flickr

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Cockfighting: a cultural activity?

                  Originally posted by turtlegirl View Post
                  OMG - WHAT!?! Hunting is a game and the animals are playing along (or are they?)!!!!!

                  This is not a game! Hunting is not a game for those poor animals when they're being stalked by humans with weapons!! When they run terrified, sometimes wounded, they are trying to LIVE, a natural instinct! I assure you, animals' pain and suffering is not a game. It is not for our selfish entertainment! Making chickens fight each other (of course, each chicken is 'dying' to win) is absurd. Duh, put them in close quarters with a scary crowd of people around, and I bet they'd fight their own mothers to get out of there!! Because they want to LIVE! They aren't actors for our entertainment - they're animals with no choice but to 'entertain' bloodthirsty, callous jerks.
                  Exactly my point. Hunting isn't a game. If you're gonna stop cockfights, do something about hunting first. More animals die, endangered plants are trampled, endangered species' habitats, humans die in accidents, humans get lost on hunting trips requiring firefighters to put their lives on the line to rescue their butts during hunting.
                  Twitter: LookMaICanWrite


                  flickr

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Cockfighting: a cultural activity?

                    Originally posted by turtlegirl View Post
                    OMG - WHAT!?! Hunting is a game and the animals are playing along (or are they?)!!!!!

                    This is not a game! Hunting is not a game for those poor animals when they're being stalked by humans with weapons!! When they run terrified, sometimes wounded, they are trying to LIVE, a natural instinct! I assure you, animals' pain and suffering is not a game. It is not for our selfish entertainment! Making chickens fight each other (of course, each chicken is 'dying' to win) is absurd. Duh, put them in close quarters with a scary crowd of people around, and I bet they'd fight their own mothers to get out of there!! Because they want to LIVE! They aren't actors for our entertainment - they're animals with no choice but to 'entertain' bloodthirsty, callous jerks.
                    We don't hunt for entertainment. We hunt (and kill) for food. The same goes for domesticated animals.
                    Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                    Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Cockfighting: a cultural activity?

                      Originally posted by turtlegirl View Post
                      Edit: I'm not trying to give Mike a hard time. I have a hard time with the way certain people treat animals, as though its all fun and games to watch helpless animals suffer. Peace
                      They're not really helpless when they're both armed with knives.
                      Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                      Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Cockfighting: a cultural activity?

                        Originally posted by salmoned View Post
                        Craig and Kimo, I don't know where you're coming from here (unfortunately, it's not the first time, either). The discussion isn't about banning anything, it's about governmental recognition of cock-fighting as a cultural activity. I can't perceive how your comments relate to that topic. Could you give me a hint as to the tie-in?
                        Playing Devil's Advocate here. Personally when it comes to culture, we need to respect that first as our diversity is what makes us strong and accepting of others.

                        Good or bad it is a cultural thing. Yes roosters weren't subjected to the advancements in drugs and weaponry that are used today, however advancements in technology didn't stop Kamehameha in achieving power across all islands.

                        What I'm saying is that before we start singling out one culture for what another culture deems cruel, we gotta remember that cruelty exists in the eyes of the beholder much like art.

                        Are we a civilized society? Apparently some of us here on this forum believe in marching to their own beat even if it means being appalling to others that share the same sidewalk with them.

                        Heck I knew of a peace protester who gave the thumbs up to my Australian friend who supported their cause. He was immediately appalled at this protester's gesture. In Australia the thumbs up gesture is the equivalent of saying F*ck You with the middle finger!

                        It's a matter of perspective and unless one lives that culture, they shouldn't be blasting something they don't understand beyond a literal level. Our Caucasian Missionary friends who first came to Hawaii were appalled when young women greeted their arriving ships bare-breasted. Appalling by western standards, totally acceptable by native Hawaiians.

                        And Salmoned...admitting lack of perception of what I'm posting while others do show a limited perspective of the broader picture. There are those here in Hawaii that oppose Cockfighting, basically want the state to prohibit or ban this practice. There is a connection here between this and other practices that seem to contradict what a bloodsport is.

                        And Salmoned as the post title says we are talking cultural activity right? Personally I detest cockfighting, however I am not the one to tell another culture how to run their lives. But when we start to focus on cultural activities as evil by our own perspectives, it opens the floodgates to what else is out there to attack.

                        There is a connection, you just can't see it...as you said, "I can't perceive how your comments relate to that topic. Could you give me a hint as to the tie-in?.
                        Last edited by craigwatanabe; April 1, 2010, 09:01 AM.
                        Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Cockfighting: a cultural activity?

                          The reference to shark fins:

                          Legislature refused to ban possession, use, etc., of shark fins - kind of "sanctioning" this culturally-significant matter.

                          Legislature refused to support cockfighting as a culturally significant activity - letting the law making the activity illegal stand.

                          The two are related by virtue of lawmakers getting involved in trying to define cultural significance . . . risky business at best, and perhaps best avoided?

                          Why do these guys (and gals) get sidetracked on stuff like this?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Cockfighting: a cultural activity?

                            I found an interesting documentary about cockfighting. Its a little bit old, but provides an insight to the people who fight cocks, and the people who fight them. Its pretty unbiased, too. For the squeamish - no worries, there's no blood & guts.
                            ~ This is the strangest life I've ever known ~

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Cockfighting: a cultural activity?

                              Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
                              while we're at it why not ban boxing, or other sporting events designed to pummel the crap outta your opponent? Roosters die in cockfights, so do prizefighters.
                              Frankly Craig, this comparison is ridiculous on a couple of levels, and I think you already know it.

                              1) Boxing is a sport where the participants are humans. Humans voluntarily decide whether to enter the sport or not. In this country, nobody is forced to become a boxer.

                              OTOH, breeders raise their roosters to be cockfighters. The animals are not given a choice.

                              2) When the roosters wear those gaffs/blades, it is almost a certainty that one of the roosters will get killed. And on the rare occasions that it doesn't happen, the loser is often so crippled that death becomes inevitable.

                              OTOH.... while boxing is a brutal sport where serious injury and yes, even death is a possibility, death is not the expected outcome. In fact, it's the job of the referee and the ring doctor to stop a fight when one of the boxers is in danger.

                              Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
                              Playing Devil's Advocate here. Personally when it comes to culture, we need to respect that first as our diversity is what makes us strong and accepting of others.
                              Which also has to be balanced out with the concept that immigrants coming here need to have a respect for the laws and customs of their hosts.

                              All of the immigrants groups that have come into the US have been allowed to practice most of the cultural traditions from their native land. This would include religion, music, dances, art and so forth. One of the cockfighting proponents whined about how the Japanese are allowed to have bon dances here. Well, every other ethnic group has been allowed to practice their native dance as well. The Filipinos are allowed to do the tinikling. The Mexicans are free to do their hat dance. In fact, ethnic fairs and festivals are commonplace in Hawaii, are they not? My point here is that all the ethnic groups living here are given the freedom to express their cultural identity in many ways. Nobody is being totally repressed from expressing their ethnic heritage and background.

                              But while the United States allows its immigrants to practice most of the cultural traditions from their native country,..... most does not equal all. Yeah, there are limitations on cultural traditions and activities that can be practiced here. In Japan, there's the mass round-up and slaughter of dolphins that happens every year in the village of Taiji. But if any Japanese wishes to emigrate to America, they're not allowed to carry on that "cultural activity" to the shores of their new country. And guess what? People who wish to make America their new home aren't allowed to practice cockfights either.

                              Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
                              What I'm saying is that before we start singling out one culture for what another culture deems cruel,
                              Nope. Read what I said above. No culture is being singled out. That's because every immigrant group coming into the US are not allowed to carry on cultural activities from their native land that involves cruelty to animals. Dolphin round-up, bullfighting,.... and yes, cockfighting.
                              Last edited by Frankie's Market; April 1, 2010, 11:06 AM.
                              This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Cockfighting: a cultural activity?

                                Should we give "cultural recognition" to eating dogs? Remember those two guys who stole the dog at Moanalua Golf Course, slaughtered it, and then ate the evidence? Other than getting fired from their jobs, what was the punishment meted out?

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X