HawaiiThreads.com

HawaiiThreads.com (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/index.php)
-   Melting Pot (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/forumdisplay.php?f=15)
-   -   cultural thing... (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=9436)

kalani_01 July 15th, 2006 11:31 PM

cultural thing...
 
I'm Italian and my wife Welsh-Danish.
Being adopted by Hawaiians I don't know anything else but the hawaiian culture.

My son was born here, he's got a hawaiian name, eats poi like no other, loves his kalua pig, and rips surfing out there. He's more hawaiian than many other kanaka maoli kids --got plenty of aloha this little one. AND he's white and blue eyes.

Now when he grows up some people may start calling names like 'haole'.

Any tips so he doesn't lose his 'aloha' because of some mean spirited people?

I'm NOT a counselor or shrink or anything like that. That's why I'm asking -I hope I'm not offending anyone.

Mahalo,

kimo55 July 15th, 2006 11:36 PM

Re: cultural thing...
 
you ARE coming across like a counselor. You are offending and you really should tell us if this is just your humble opinion or no. Is this just yer two cents worth? are you affiliated with the company or just like their products?
FYI, that said, I am only joking.
Ignore the afrementioned. having said that,
Sounds like keiki o ka aina got nahteen to worry about. and if anyone geev him heet, he should walk away.
and I wouldn't worry like ya are, about what may never be, either.
and don't you dare buy into dat shit about being deeply offended, hurt and sad if and/or when some numbskull flings any kine rude lewd or crude epithets in the general direction of any various and sundry members of yer family, or you will sue, becuz life is ruff and what legal recourse do we have. cuz if ya do, you will be bitchslapped by the cold hard fax of life that sez we create our own paradise and carry it around widdus everywhere. So make yer own reality. Don't buy into a negative one. It ain't yer own. (unless ya want it to be. In which case, stay on yer own side of the mosquito coast. It bites.)

MadAzza July 15th, 2006 11:39 PM

Re: cultural thing...
 
I would just remind him that other people's bad behavior is a reflection on them, not on him. That goes for all bad behavior (including comments), not just those pertaining to the color of his skin.

And then, like Kimo said, walk away. Or paddle away.

Works for me! Usually. :p

'i'iwipolena July 16th, 2006 12:12 AM

Re: cultural thing...
 
Quote:

My son was born here, he's got a hawaiian name, eats poi like no other, loves his kalua pig, and rips surfing out there. He's more hawaiian than many other kanaka maoli kids --got plenty of aloha this little one. AND he's white and blue eyes.

Now when he grows up some people may start calling names like 'haole'.

Any tips so he doesn't lose his 'aloha' because of some mean spirited people?
If that's the case, you should foster his love and knowledge of Hawaiian culture, have him learn the Hawaiian language, and he will generally be respected; could you imagine the look on a bully's face if he called your son a 'haole' and he answered back in Hawaiian?

Lei K July 16th, 2006 01:02 AM

Re: cultural thing...
 
I think you mean he embraces the Hawaiian culture and way of life more than many kanaka maoli kids, yes? If that is the case I agree with 'i'iwipolena. For him to learn the language is a beautiful thing and a great way to be able to defend himself from some of the meanies out there. But growing up in the islands, if he were to say to a kanaka maoli/part kanaka maoli kid that he was more "Hawaiian" than that kid, I'm sure that wouldn't sit right if they knew he was of pure "haole" blood. It's all about the way one comes across to me. :)

My sons are part-Hawaiian, also with Hawaiian first names honoring members of my ohana who have passed on and our surnames. They will probably deal with the "haole" comments someday because they are half, and look it! No reason that it should ruin their aloha, kids are gonna be kids, just gotta teach them to not let it get them down. ;)

scrivener July 16th, 2006 03:48 AM

Re: cultural thing...
 
Don't teach your kid that "haole" is an insult. When most people say it, it's not.

MadAzza July 16th, 2006 05:41 AM

Re: cultural thing...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 'i'iwipolena
If that's the case, you should foster his love and knowledge of Hawaiian culture, have him learn the Hawaiian language, and he will generally be respected; could you imagine the look on a bully's face if he called your son a 'haole' and he answered back in Hawaiian?

Yeah, considering most of that type of racist bullshit comes not from kanaka maoli but from descendants of Asian cultures, the recipient of the Hawaiian language dressing-down probably won't even understand that it's Hawaiian, and will repeat, from ignorance, his smug, bigoted mantra: "Fucking haole!"

The better man will walk away.

nachodaddy July 16th, 2006 05:07 PM

Re: cultural thing...
 
.....no can offend you without your permission. My version of a very famous quote.

scrivener July 16th, 2006 06:53 PM

Re: cultural thing...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nachodaddy
.....no can offend you without your permission.

yes. amen.

kimo55 July 16th, 2006 07:03 PM

Re: cultural thing...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kalani_01
Now when he grows up some people may start calling names like 'haole'.

Any tips so he doesn't lose his 'aloha' because of some mean spirited people?

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt, 'This Is My Story,' 1937

KOKekai July 21st, 2006 02:57 AM

Re: cultural thing...
 
I always see this type of racism. Even against Hawaiians in my family! My uncle was 25% Hawaiian 25% Chinese and 50% German. His mom and dad broke up when he was young and his German mom from Canada raised him in Hawaii. He had european features, he didnt look Hawaiian or Chinese. When he was young all the kids used to call him haole. Hows that?! You are a Hawaiian on your own land and you have a immigrant call you a haole!?

I seen this in the water too. A guy started a fight with my friend who is part Hawaiian but looks haole. His cousin steped in (tall built Hawaiian Portuguese guy). And when he said that he was his cousin and that he was Hawaiian the guy looked like he was in deep ****.

My advice is as long as you teach him the Hawaiian spirit he will be a good person reguardless if people call him haole or not. I remember when I was a keiki I went to summer fun and we went to the beach with the Aikau family to learn to surf. I remember this girl calling this one kid a haole and Eddie Aikau's sister asked her "why did you call him that?". There was silence because all the keikis knew the Aikaus and had tons of respect for them. Then she said "youre making him feel unwelcome". The girl didnt do it anymore. I love the Aikaus they are good people who represent the islands with love for everyone.
Aloha

tinav July 21st, 2006 01:43 PM

Re: cultural thing...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KOKekai
When he was young all the kids used to call him haole. Hows that?! You are a Hawaiian on your own land and you have a immigrant call you a haole!?

I seen this in the water too. A guy started a fight with my friend who is part Hawaiian but looks haole.

this happens to my 14 yr old son quite a bit. the way he handles it depends on the situation and his mood. sometimes he just walks away with a "wotevas"....and sometimes he says "u know what...i'm NOT haole...but if i was DEN WOT!?!?!" while i wish he wouldnt go with the second option...my husband has told me that "da boy gotta show he's willing to stand up for himself"

in my talks with my son, i've complimented him on how he deals with racism. he told me "ma, i dunno why u so surprised. u and dad da ones dat taught me not to make other folks silliness my problem. all da racism u and dad dealt with in your lives....if u can do it...den i can do 'em too!!"

and we thought he neva listen............

craigwatanabe July 21st, 2006 02:40 PM

Re: cultural thing...
 
Ahhh but this question brings it all back to ethnicity vs culturalism. In this case being raised in a Hawaiian family gives you the strength to better understand the Hawaiian culture more than a Kanaka Maoli who was raised in Wisconson three times over.

And when it comes to nationalism, I believe as in you case that one can be born into a culture and be more representative of that culture even though they may not have a single drop of that ethnicity. That said I believe one can also be of pure blood but not raised in that culture and not have a clue as to their ancestor's beliefs. Look at me, 100% Japanese but I don't speak the language nor do I want to. Born and raised in Hawaii.

So when Hawaii is given back to the Hawaiian Monarchy (hey it could happen) who gets a piece of the pie, the 100% Kanaka Maoli who never set foot or understands what it means to be Kanaka Maoli...or the "Haole" who's ethnicity is Italian/Dutch/Welch but can whoop that Kanaka Maoli's okole when it comes to Hawaiian cultural heritage? I'd pick the Haole in this case.

To me being born Hawaiian doesn't mean you automatically understand it's heritage unless you live it. One can study it but like swimming, you can't teach a drowning person to swim by throwing a book on swimming at him. You gotta live and embrace it.

When it comes to being anything, if you live and embrace it...it will be impressed upon to others around you naturally. Eh get plenty Haole's up here that know more about Hawaii than the typical stereotyped "local". And I know some Hawaiians who can't even speak their ethnic tongue yet expound on their cultural heritage without even embracing it.

You may be Haole by physical standards, but if you want your keiki to follow your upbringing, then you as their parent must live it as you have and immerse your child with that attitude.

But then again I'm Japanese without a trace of Hawaiian except thru reverse osmosis (my wife and kids are), so I don't have a shark protecting me nor do I have any Iwi to reflect upon, so what do I know right? I'm just expounding my western thinking on a non-western cultural thing...but I live and embrace it, just like you as an adopted non-Hawaiian into a Hawaiian family.

So who's to tell you or I that we don't know anything (except Kimo who tells me that all the time :D ), the Kanaka Maoli that's so ignorant he thinks Kau Kau is a Hawaiian phrase, or us who know better.

And then again there's Susie's claim to be Hawaiian by virtue of claiming it as a residence...I'm a resident of Hawaii yet I'm not Hawaiian. But culturally, I could, so could Susie but that doesn't make us Hawaiian. And by that comparison, neither could you as an adopted child into a Hawaiian family. I believe KSBE also recognizes that fact that to be admitted into KSBE as a Hawaiian you must prove your Hawaiian lineage down to three levels. My wife's mother was adopted by a Hawaiian family, thankfully the court records (sealed but available to her mom) indicated my mother in law's biological mother was Hawaiian, making my wife part Hawaiian as well.

So what exactly is Hawaiian? When it comes to taking your piece of the Hawaiian Lands pie, there's gonna be a lot of pissed off Hawaiians who thought they were and found out they weren't.

I think that's why a lot of us born and raised in Hawaii prefer to be called "Local" because that shoe fits. I'd love to be Hawaiian but the closest I can get is to be a Hawaiian-influenced Japanese/American. I'm totally screwed, a man without a nation as they say when Hawaii is given back to the Kanaka Maoli. I guess Idaho ain't that bad :rolleyes: it's lava fields have a bigger surface area than Hawaii's and they do have a street called, "Hibiscus street". My first Palani Vaughn record was at a record store in Nampa, Idaho. :)

helen July 21st, 2006 03:13 PM

Re: cultural thing...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by craigwatanabe
I think that's why a lot of us born and raised in Hawaii prefer to be called "Local" because that shoe fits.

Well said Craig. Also have to keep in mind that "Local" shoe comes in many sizes. Not all locals think or act the same.

craigwatanabe July 21st, 2006 03:14 PM

Re: cultural thing...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by helen
Well said Craig. Also have to keep in mind that "Local" shoe comes in many sizes. Not all locals think or act the same.

What? You mean you're not like me? :( Hmmm maybe that's a good thing :D

Pua'i Mana'o July 21st, 2006 03:45 PM

Re: cultural thing...
 
Hawaiians believe in three piko.

The spiritual piko is our ability to mahalo, and our aloha Akua, aloha aina, aloha lahui.

The ancestral piko is our ancestry. It ties us to our kupuna. It is our blood. It is this piko that one appreciates his/her Hawaiian birthright.

The genital piko is our future. It is our choices, womb to tomb. Our character, our fate. And it is in this piko that anyone can appreciate his/her Hawaiian heritage. And raise their children to do the same.

These are piko, not conflicts. Know the difference, and how they compliment, and everything falls into its rightful place.

Whitepoint3rchum July 21st, 2006 03:52 PM

Re: cultural thing...
 
Craig, more beautiful prose has not graced an internet forum... Hehe. Totally concur with you. I too face the same plight. If the Hawaiian Nation does return, I'm screwed. I don't have any ties to Europe (as can be seen when Europeans decide not to mingle with caucasians (myself) from America). I don't really have any mainland ties except to the Bay Area. I was rejected in NJ because I wasn't a rich elitists who made racial cracks about people of different complexions. So maybe we can set out into the Indian Ocean and settle on an unihabited island, claim it for our own. What do yah think Craig. You down for founding our own Island?

craigwatanabe July 21st, 2006 03:53 PM

Re: cultural thing...
 
so do you need to believe in all three or any of the three. If all three then even an adopted child into a Hawaiian family can't be Hawaiian. But if any one or combination of the three is okay then Susie and I can be considered culturally as Hawaiian right?

This can lead to some serious ramification regarding what is and what isn't Hawaiian.

And for founding my own island, Yeah let's pool some money down and buy an island. I know a Fijian who wants to sell his island, we can call it HTland for us expatriates.

Pua'i Mana'o July 21st, 2006 03:57 PM

Re: cultural thing...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitepoint3rchum
If the Hawaiian Nation does return, I'm screwed...

Hawaii naturalized citizens long before America had anything to do with it. My European and Chinese ancestors who came here all became naturalized citizens of Hawai'i.

Pua'i Mana'o July 21st, 2006 04:02 PM

Re: cultural thing...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by craigwatanabe
so do you need to believe in all three or any of the three. If all three then even an adopted child into a Hawaiian family can't be Hawaiian. But if any one or combination of the three is okay then Susie and I can be considered culturally as Hawaiian right?

This can lead to some serious ramification regarding what is and what isn't Hawaiian.

And for founding my own island, Yeah let's pool some money down and buy an island. I know a Fijian who wants to sell his island, we can call it HTland for us expatriates.

I believe that hanai is hanai. That child was raised Hawaiian has Hawaiian as his heritage and should feel secure, no matter what ANYBODY says. Only our ancestral piko is the one over which we have no control; and that piko can be heavy baggage for some--imagine being that person who gets to be the last living full-blooded Hawaiian. It is our spiritual piko that helps us get over our trials and baggage and forges our resolve, and the fire of our genital piko that forges our choice.

craigwatanabe July 21st, 2006 04:28 PM

Re: cultural thing...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pua'i Mana'o
I believe that hanai is hanai. That child was raised Hawaiian has Hawaiian as his heritage and should feel secure, no matter what ANYBODY says. Only our ancestral piko is the one over which we have no control; and that piko can be heavy baggage for some--imagine being that person who gets to be the last living full-blooded Hawaiian. It is our spiritual piko that helps us get over our trials and baggage and forges our resolve, and the fire of our genital piko that forges our choice.

That's fine but how does that determine who get's what when that pie get's cut? There are many Hawaian's who don't know a piko from their belly button and there are those who only know it as their belly button. If they have lost their cultural heritage because of their own ignorance then do they deserve to be embraced in the country they ignored or left? I think not because I couldn't go to Japan and proclaim myself more "Japanese" than any of the nationals there even though I'm 100% Pure Japanese.

My ancestors were farm dwellers who worked and blessed the lands they tended just like the Hawaiians, but I don't dare go to Japan and proclaim myself more Japanese than those living there. Heck even Kamasami Kong has a better appreciation for things Japanese than I and his last name is Zix and as much of a European Swede than anything else.

My home is and always was Hawaii and for that I feel deeply rooted here with a fond appreciation for the land I dwell on. I will fight for Hawaii's survival even though I may lose my own land as a result. Does that make me any less of a culturally sensitive man of Hawaiian culture? Does that give me any right to proclaim myself as a Hawaiian by virtue of any of the two remaining piko that is afforded to me to exercise?

I believe the ancestral piko is more of an excuse for an ignornant Kanaka Maoli to use to claim their place without embracing the other two piko. You can be a Hawaiian by birthright, however if you don't live and embrace it, as you should with the other two piko then I'm sorry, you're not Hawaiian just as I'm really not Japanese. Can't speak the language and quite frankly I hate it's two-face way of communicating: Yes means no and no means yes.

We need to move on with Hawaii's future and look upon it as an ever-evolving land. Just like America, we in Hawaii were a land of indiginent people that accepted more and more immigrants to develop what we now embrace as modern Hawaii. It all started with Captain Cook and the Great one himself. As in the United States, all of us who are U.S. citizens are from the country we know of as the United States of America we embrace it's identity as ours...we are Americans even though the true Americans had there lands taken away from them as did the Hawaiians.

But we call ourselves Americans and the rest of the world hates us for that monicker. But that's what we are. How is that different than what is going on here in Hawaii. Eventually as an immigrant seeking citizenship one can lose their nationalism as an Italian and be considered an Italian/American but an American if only.

Is that what we need to be considered when Hawaii reverts to the monarchy? Japanese/Hawaiian but Hawaiian if only? As a country I believe so thru nationalism. As a culture I believe so. But thru ancestry? Well there in lies the biggest hurdle to be called or considered.

How will the monarchy determine who is and who isn't Hawaiian? Like I said, there are going to be a lot of pissed off Hawaiians when that determination will be made.

LikaNui July 21st, 2006 04:48 PM

Re: cultural thing...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by craigwatanabe
Yeah let's pool some money down and buy an island. I know a Fijian who wants to sell his island, we can call it HTland for us expatriates.

How about a chain of 23 islands, currently for sale?!? http://www.conflictislands.com/

Whitepoint3rchum July 21st, 2006 06:12 PM

Re: cultural thing...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LikaNui
How about a chain of 23 islands, currently for sale?!? http://www.conflictislands.com/


Great, an archipelago, even better. Now how much does it coast? :confused:

Also Pua, naturalization maybe, but how many 'I'm Hawaiian cause my uncle's cousin's niece's dog's mailman was Hawaiian' would flock to Hawai'i. It would get overpopulated hella quick and THEN I'd be screwed. People from teh mainland with more money than I have would move and become citizens before I could. If that is indeed the case, we should invest in our own archipelago. :D :D And yes, Prof. K., I ment to spell 'teh' not the.

'i'iwipolena July 22nd, 2006 07:07 AM

Re: cultural thing...
 
Quote:

'I'm Hawaiian cause my uncle's cousin's niece's dog's mailman was Hawaiian'
This may be off topic, but how did you string those nouns together so cleverly? The dog was a nice touch. If you said a fish or a bird or a cat, or something like that, it wouldn't have worked as well. If you don't mind, I'd like to copy this down and use a similar sentence pattern when the opportunity presents itself.

craigwatanabe July 22nd, 2006 07:17 AM

Re: cultural thing...
 
Don't forget the mongoose...or was it a rat. But the dog yeah I can see the acceptance of that one.

Speaking of things OT, how do you feel about the UH Hilo's Imiloa center here on the Big Island?


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:22 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.