HawaiiThreads.com

HawaiiThreads.com (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/index.php)
-   Hawaii Hall (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9)
-   -   Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 9 (http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showthread.php?t=16755)

turtlegirl March 16th, 2009 09:53 PM

Hawaii Superferry - Chapter 9
 
I can't believe this! From Pacific Business News :

"The Hawaii Supreme Court ruled Monday that the law produced by a special legislative session in 2007 that allowed the Hawaii Superferry to operate while an environmental impact statement was conducted is unconstitutional.
The ruling could require Hawaii Superferry to suspend its Oahu-Maui service, and possibly force it out of business.
The high court ruled in favor of the Sierra Club, Maui Tomorrow and the Kahului Harbor Coalition..."




WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIERRA CLUB!! :rolleyes: What'll happen now?

Amati March 16th, 2009 10:37 PM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by turtlegirl (Post 228325)
What'll happen now?

Happen now? The SuperFerry will need to fall into line with everyone else's requirement to do enviromment studies BEFORE they start business. Meanwhile, it is the Hawaii taxpayers that will take a hit, due to the funding that the state has put into the project, and the probably lawsuit that the SuperFerry will put against the state for "suckering" it into starting business here by assuring it was ok to do so. IMHO, that is my prediction.

LikaNui March 16th, 2009 11:08 PM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
The new ruling did not specifically ban the Superferry from operating, so the Sierra Club et al would have to file for an injunction.
I expect that the state and the Superferry will file an appeal all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court, which could take years. In the meantime, the final version of the Environmental Impact Statement is due this June, and once that's in and approved the ruling today will be a moot point.
I doubt that the Superferry is going to stop operating tomorrow, or anytime soon.

helen March 16th, 2009 11:47 PM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
Kind of bizzare if you ask me. Right now if no one did anything the SuperFerry would have stop operations in May of this year.

LikaNui March 17th, 2009 12:36 AM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
Breaking news at this link:

Superferry to cease operations due to court ruling

The Hawaii Superferry said it will cease operations on Thursday following a ruling today by the Hawaii Supreme Court that went against the inter-island ferry service.
The Hawaii Supreme Court ruled this morning that a state law allowing Hawaii Superferry to operate without a complete environmental impact statement is unconstitutional.
Superferry said in a statement late today that "Obviously we are hugely disappointed with the Supreme Court's decision that Act 2 is unconstitutional. We have operated on a regular, reliable and responsible basis for the past 11 months. During this time over 250,000 people have booked travel on Alakai and it has provided new economic opportunities for Hawaii's businesses.
"While the appeal is not yet final because a judgment on appeal has not been
entered, we want to proceed prudently and have decided to cease operations
for the present.
"Our first priority is to take care of our customers, both those who have
recently traveled and need to return to either Oahu or Maui and those who
have future bookings. We will make one additional round trip to get vehicles back to their homes this Thursday."
The company said it is in the process of calling all customers with near term bookings.
Customers may also call 1-877-443-3779 or 1-808-853-4007 for immediate
service.
(...)

.

mel March 17th, 2009 12:40 AM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
KFVE 6:30 news just reported that Hawaii Superferry will shut down after Thursday. :(

I have absolutely no respect for any environmental wackos and opponents of the Hawaii Superferry. :mad: They have done a great disservice to the traveling public by taking away a viable, affordable and new travel option between the islands.

This once again sends out a message that Hawaii is a very hostile place to do business. If anyone from any large firm wants to launch a private passenger sea transportation option, do it anywhere else except in Hawaii. The environmental wackos want to crucify you. No one or no firm has deep pockets to keep any business afloat forever in this kind of hostile business climate.

turtlegirl March 17th, 2009 12:46 AM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!
NNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

I just bought 2 roundtrip tickets for Spring Break TODAY!!! Literally! At 12:30 this afternoon I was sooo happy!! Aaarghhh!! Noooo!! Now I might have to cancel my Maui vacation!!!! :mad::confused: Could't they have waited til after spring break!!???!

Frankie's Market March 17th, 2009 01:24 AM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mel (Post 228333)
I have absolutely no respect for any environmental wackos and opponents of the Hawaii Superferry. :mad: They have done a great disservice to the traveling public by taking away a viable, affordable and new travel option between the islands.

I guess I'm going to have to offer the discordant voice in this thread by placing the blame for this fiasco, not on the environmentalists (everybody's favorite scapegoat), but on Gov. Lingle's administration. Remember, they were the ones who bypassed the normal environmental review process in order to fast-track the Superferry. It was acting upon the shoddy recommendation of her legal advisors that the governor has got the Superferry and the state into this huge mess.

I thought that Lingle Dingle's failure to attend the Governor's meeting w/Pres. Obama to discuss the stimulus was a bad gaffe, but a shutdown of the ferry would definitely mark a new low for her.

oggboy March 17th, 2009 01:39 AM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
Funny how everything is slapping everyone in the okole. Now we add more to the un-employment line. We are getting more problems day in and day out. But no problem!, we just go raise more tax so everybody loses. PAU ALL READY!!!

integlspwr March 17th, 2009 01:54 AM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
Those matson and YB guys have lots of friends in high places..

turtlegirl March 17th, 2009 02:09 AM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by integlspwr (Post 228344)
Those matson and YB guys have lots of friends in high places..

Seriously!!!!

Price to ship a car to Maui with Young Brothers or Matson - at least $600.

Price to rent a car on Maui for a 1 week vacation - $600.

Price to ship a car to Maui with Superferry - $70

Conspiracies and monopolies, anybody?

PAU ALL READY!!

oggboy March 17th, 2009 02:19 AM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by turtlegirl (Post 228345)
Seriously!!!!

Price to ship a car to Maui with Young Brothers or Matson - at least $600.

Price to rent a car on Maui for a 1 week vacation - $600.

Price to ship a car to Maui with Superferry - $70

Conspiracies and monopolies, anybody?

PAU ALL READY!!


THEY JUST KEEP GOIN AND GOIN.
Try watch the buggas goin as for one raise. Eh, maybe AIG.....

Composite 2992 March 17th, 2009 07:12 AM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by turtlegirl (Post 228345)
Seriously!!!!

Price to ship a car to Maui with Young Brothers or Matson - at least $600.

Price to rent a car on Maui for a 1 week vacation - $600.

Price to ship a car to Maui with Superferry - $70

Conspiracies and monopolies, anybody?

PAU ALL READY!!

Doesn't help that just about everything that's not screwed down or glued in weill get stolen out of the car enroute. And of course YB refuses to take any responsibility.

Nords March 17th, 2009 09:33 AM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mel (Post 228333)
I have absolutely no respect for any environmental wackos and opponents of the Hawaii Superferry. :mad: They have done a great disservice to the traveling public by taking away a viable, affordable and new travel option between the islands.

My impression of a few hours with Jeff Mikulina is that he's anything but a whacko. And I think he's forgotten more about responsible ethical behavior than John Lehman ever learned.

I don't think Sierra Club has ever targeted the SuperFerry directly as much as they've been concerned about the government's subversion of the environmental impact statement process.

Imagine if the EIS was a "nice to have as long as it doesn't hold up doin' bidness". Imagine if Castle & Cooke had a handshake agreement with the political & bureaucratic agencies to begin building Koa Ridge by Waipio Costco before finishing an EIS. Imagine if the Army decided to hold unrestricted live fire exercises in Makua whenever they deemed it necessary. Imagine if the Navy restricted portions of the waters around Maui & Lanai to build a shallow-water weapons range to test VLF sonar tactics and torpedo settings. Imagine if Tesoro wanted to build a refinery on cheap land near Pokai Bay, or Grace Pacific decided to expand their quarry operations into Makakilo & Kunia. Imagine if the city decided to open a new landfill out by Kaneohe, or to start building the elevated rail system with private investor money.

Imagine if Kipapa Gulch landowners decided to start up their own construction-equipment rental & repair business, along with the noise and the HAZMAT dumping. Oh, wait, they already did that.

Seems kinda short-term thinking to throw the EIS system under a bus so that we can have cheap transportation on a neighbor island. I'm glad that the Supreme Court had the cojones to slap down the other branches of our alleged "government".

TuNnL March 17th, 2009 10:31 AM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords (Post 228367)
I don't think Sierra Club has ever targeted the SuperFerry directly as much as they've been concerned about the government's subversion of the environmental impact statement process.

Imagine if the EIS was a "nice to have as long as it doesn't hold up doin' bidness" ... Seems kinda short-term thinking to throw the EIS system under a bus so that we can have cheap transportation on a neighbor island. I'm glad that the Supreme Court had the cojones to slap down the other branches of our alleged "government".

Amen to that! Superferry “fans” seem to forget that if the company had followed environmental regulations in the first place, they wouldn’t be in this mess now. It’s only because they pressured the state to make a special exception for their ‘special’ company. For what? So they could test their JHSV (Joint High Speed Vessel) on unsuspecting Hawai‘i residents? Let’s dispense with the shibai here. The Superferry is a military prototype vessel designed to transport Striker Brigade vehicles. The Nation calls the people running Superferry a “mini-Pentagon.” The “inter-island” ferry service is just a sham designed to build up enough hours of use on the Superferry to prove that it is seaworthy enough for the feds to buy into it. Anyone who believes otherwise is ignorant and naïve. :rolleyes:

Vanguard March 17th, 2009 10:58 AM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankie's Market (Post 228338)
I guess I'm going to have to offer the discordant voice in this thread by placing the blame for this fiasco, not on the environmentalists (everybody's favorite scapegoat), but on Gov. Lingle's administration. Remember, they were the ones who bypassed the normal environmental review process in order to fast-track the Superferry. It was acting upon the shoddy recommendation of her legal advisors that the governor has got the Superferry and the state into this huge mess.

Agreed. Any violation of due process, whether we agree with the outcome or not, is a step backward for our society. I hope the environmental factors will be seriously reviewed.

Thanks for the Nation link, TuNnL!

Mike_Lowery March 17th, 2009 02:43 PM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TuNnL (Post 228369)
Amen to that! Superferry “fans” seem to forget that if the company had followed environmental regulations in the first place, they wouldn’t be in this mess now. It’s only because they pressured the state to make a special exception for their ‘special’ company. For what? So they could test their JHSV (Joint High Speed Vessel) on unsuspecting Hawai‘i residents? Let’s dispense with the shibai here. The Superferry is a military prototype vessel designed to transport Striker Brigade vehicles. The Nation calls the people running Superferry a “mini-Pentagon.” The “inter-island” ferry service is just a sham designed to build up enough hours of use on the Superferry to prove that it is seaworthy enough for the feds to buy into it. Anyone who believes otherwise is ignorant and naďve. :rolleyes:

This is Gospel.

Jewlipino March 17th, 2009 03:03 PM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mel (Post 228333)
KFVE 6:30 news just reported that Hawaii Superferry will shut down after Thursday. :(

I have absolutely no respect for any environmental wackos and opponents of the Hawaii Superferry. :mad: They have done a great disservice to the traveling public by taking away a viable, affordable and new travel option between the islands.

This once again sends out a message that Hawaii is a very hostile place to do business. If anyone from any large firm wants to launch a private passenger sea transportation option, do it anywhere else except in Hawaii. The environmental wackos want to crucify you. No one or no firm has deep pockets to keep any business afloat forever in this kind of hostile business climate.

Aww c'mon Mel, I have respect for you. For the record I was one of the enviros working on this issue from the very get go, back before Gov. Lingle made the illegal exemptions. I personally like the concept of the Superferry and wanted them to succeed. What I didn't like was the fact that they wanted to flout our laws, and believe me HEPA was put in for very good reasons. I didn't like the fact that they tried to (and sometimes succeeded in) bribe our public officials with campaign contributions to get their way. Superferry shot itself in the foot. If they had just done the EIS like every other business is required to do with projects of this magnitude this situation simply would not have happened. The enviros (tho probably not the Native Haw'n groups) were for the most part neutral to favorable regarding the Superferry up until they basically told us "We don't CARE what your law says, our MONEY says more."

Composite 2992 March 17th, 2009 03:27 PM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
The difference between a refinery, quarry, landfill and a ship is that you can easily shut down the ship and not leave a permanent scar on the environment. You can't do that with the other three.

So while it's important to adhere to rules regarding a EIS, a common-sense approach would be to allow the Superferry to operate while the EIS mess is straightened out.

After 11 months of operation any obvious and serious problems would have surfaced. Yet the Superferry has proven to be as environmentally safe as any other vessel of its size plying our waters.

The Superferry uses less fuel per passenger and per pound of freight than any aircraft, and it outputs its emissions at lower altitudes as well. For anyone interested I'll gladly supply the math. And the Superferry doesn't require noise abatement procedures, unlike any interisland airline.

And the other arguments still apply: carrying vehicles aboard the Superferry has less environmental impact than the much larger number of vehicles carried aboard the interisland barges.

Environmentalists pride themselves on taking the long view of things. However in this case they've been horrendously short-sighted and narrow-minded. They've lost sight of the actual potential environmental impact of this ship compared to everything else that's already in operation. They failed to comprehend the broader picture of everything that's out there.

A vocal few have managed to bring a valuable service to its knees. I hope they're proud of that and can somehow find it within themselves to provide employment for the people who will suddenly find themselves without jobs in this very difficult time.

Ron Whitfield March 17th, 2009 03:39 PM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
Ever since seeing the super ferrys in Asia, I've thot we needed them here, if for no other reason than hurricane/tsunami/disater expidited relief. But watching Lingle's typical 'worst example' of republicanism deceit and deception all along in the manner had me against it's success until all the cards were on the table, most importantly, the one stated by TunlL, as a military deployment vehicle. They all lied about it not being so.
This is all Lingle's wrong doing and will probably be her legacy headstone.
We can start now in writing Lingle's legacy, and it ain't gonna be good.

Indeed, thank you Sierra Club, and Kauai protesters! You did what was sadly a neccessity under the circumstances. Maybe under an Abercrombie admin., we can get it reinstated in a truthful, proper, and better manner. We need it!

Mike_Lowery March 17th, 2009 04:19 PM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Whitfield (Post 228378)
Ever since seeing the super ferrys in Asia, I've thot we needed them here, if for no other reason than hurricane/tsunami/disater expidited relief. But watching Lingle's typical 'worst example' of republicanism deceit and deception all along in the manner had me against it's success until all the cards were on the table, most importantly, the one stated by TunlL, as a military deployment vehicle. They all lied about it not being so.
This is all Lingle's wrong doing and will probably be her legacy headstone.
We can start now in writing Lingle's legacy, and it ain't gonna be good.

Indeed, thank you Sierra Club, and Kauai protesters! You did what was sadly a neccessity under the circumstances. Maybe under an Abercrombie admin., we can get it reinstated in a truthful, proper, and better manner. We need it!

Everyone blames the Kauai protestors for "spoiling" it for everyone, but you know what? How can you be mad at a group of people who were intelligent enough to organize themselves and get their message across? I don't see any sort of organization on this level by supporters of the HSF. Just a bunch of bickering fingerpointers.

Jewlipino March 17th, 2009 04:19 PM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Composite 2992 (Post 228376)
So while it's important to adhere to rules regarding a EIS, a common-sense approach would be to allow the Superferry to operate while the EIS mess is straightened out.

I think that most of your points are entirely valid, and as I said above the concept of the Superferry is one that I and many other people support. However, allowing the Superferry to operate illegally perpetuates illegalities that have been a part of Superferry from the get-go. Environmental laws only work when they are followed. There is a process for exemption to HEPA, Superferry decided to lie to the Governor and the people of Hawaii, which in turn caused the Governor in a fit of pro-business-at-all-costs fervor to illegally exempt Superferry. When the Governor and Superferry were caught and then brought to court over this illegal action, Superferry dumped a ton of cash into legislative campaign coffers (and the governor's) to buy themselves a special legislative session. Turns out Act 2 was ultimately found, with very rigorous legal reasoning, to be unconstitutional by the Hawaii Supreme Court. (http://www.state.hi.us/jud/opinions/sct/2009/29035.pdf Read it... all 113 pages of it) We are a people of laws and our laws draw their strength from our National and State Constitutions. It is not ok to simply ignore those laws whenever it seems convenient.

At the heart of this is disrespect. The disrespect Superferry showed the people of Hawaii when they flouted our laws, the disrespect Gov. Lingle showed her constituents when she broke our laws, and cynicism of the Superferry in paying off our elected officials to buy a law. If you think that's ok then I have some land in the path of a lava flow I'd like to sell you, I think it won't get overrun but I'm not gonna pay a geologist to tell me for sure.

Ron Whitfield March 17th, 2009 05:01 PM

Are you possibly misreading my comment?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_Lowery (Post 228380)
Everyone blames the Kauai protestors for "spoiling" it for everyone, but you know what? How can you be mad at a group of people who were intelligent enough to organize themselves and get their message across? I don't see any sort of organization on this level by supporters of the HSF. Just a bunch of bickering fingerpointers.

I have but one middle finger pointed, on each hand, and they are pointed at Lingle and Lehman.

helen March 17th, 2009 05:16 PM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TuNnL (Post 228369)
For what? So they could test their JHSV (Joint High Speed Vessel) on unsuspecting Hawai‘i residents? Let’s dispense with the shibai here. The Superferry is a military prototype vessel designed to transport Striker Brigade vehicles. The Nation calls the people running Superferry a “mini-Pentagon.” The “inter-island” ferry service is just a sham designed to build up enough hours of use on the Superferry to prove that it is seaworthy enough for the feds to buy into it. Anyone who believes otherwise is ignorant and naďve.

So what? It's not the first time transportation systems have a civilian and miltary version. Look at the Boeing 707 jet and the Air Force KC-135, both are the same type of jet or a more current example is the Boeing 737/800 and the Navy's P-8. No one complained that 737 flying around Hawaiian skies would be one day used as miltary jets.

As far ships carrying the Styker, the Army has them now, how do you think the Stykers originally deployed at Schofield got here in the first place and then deployed to Iraq and then coming back to Hawaii?

Granted someone, somewhere down the road screwed up in not initially doing the EIS, yes they should have, since they had time to do it from the moment they wanted to do the project to the time when the vessel actually arrived in Hawaii.

joshuatree March 17th, 2009 05:49 PM

Re: Superferry Loses in Court - Hawaii Loses Overall
 
There's just a lack of common sense and special interest here. If it was to uphold the law, punish the gov't that created the fiasco, not the company. Did the company pressure? Sure but ultimately, who caved in? And how long has SF been operating? Are we seriously being told, something on paper which have more validity then a real time, real life tracking record? If there is no 11th hour solution to this, Hawaii just screwed itself big time again.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:33 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.